intro: This episode is part of a special Women In Leadership Podcast series.

Sarah Brownell (Host): Thank you so much for joining. My name is Sarah Brownell. I'm the Strategic Growth Director for HDR. And I am fortunate enough to be able to host this special series of interviews with female leaders in healthcare, really just highlighting some of the different stories, some of the different career paths and the experiences of some of the really phenomenal female leaders that we have in our industry. So, I'm really excited today to be able to interview Keeli John with Emory Healthcare. Can you share a little bit about your current role and a little bit about your background and your trajectory?

Keeli John: Absolutely. So, I am Keeli John. I am the newly appointed Corporate Director for Planning, Design, and Construction for Emory Healthcare. I have been with Emory for 13 years though. But going back, my background, actually, I went to Appalachian State University for undergrad and had marketing and hospitality and tourism management, thinking from a planning standpoint, and then was in Charleston, South Carolina. And I actually come from a medical family. My brother and my dad are both physicians, but I knew that clinical was not the route for me. So, I went to MUSC to get my Master in Healthcare Administration. And from there, I was at MUSC for a little bit in HR, again, quickly ruled that out. That was not for me. And I was lucky enough to find the opportunity here at Emory Healthcare in our Strategic Planning Office.

So, I worked in our strategic planning office for about five years and worked with our transplant service line, the Midtown operating unit, strategic business plans, really enjoyed the work. And then in 2016, I had the opportunity to come to our Emory University hospital for a large project that was the build out of our Emory University Hospital Tower, which some people may know as the J Wing, but built that out and did the transition for the clinical team. So, that was an excellent opportunity and then have been in that role. And again just formally took this one this year, and I'm very excited for a new adventure.

Host: I love the background, and I think I've shared in some of these other podcasts that we've done, so one of the reasons that I've really been interested in this topic is because I have an 18-year-old daughter. And as she was looking at colleges and thinking about what programs, she had no idea what she wanted to do. And I remember people asking her, "What do you want to do with your life?" And you know, here's this baby, basically, and the expectation of having to have it all figured out. And seeing her having to deal with that pressure of like knowing on day one what your goal is and when you don't even know, you don't even know. So, I just love hearing your story, hearing about how you created your own path. I think that it's really phenomenal.

Keeli John: It was a very iterative process. Yeah. I mean, if you asked me at 18, 22, if I thought I would be here, my answer would have probably been, "Where? No." So, it took time, it took exposure, it took experiences, mentors, and other individuals that I was exposed to really get the feel for this work and know where I wanted to go within healthcare. So, I'm very, very thankful to be here.

Host: I think that's awesome. So as you reflect, then obviously you're in a new role now, you still have a ton of road ahead of you in your career, but as you look back, can you share some of the standout moments that you can reflect on?

Keeli John: So, I think strategic planning really built that foundation for me. So, I enjoyed all of my time in that office. That actually gave me such exposure across Emory Healthcare that then I had a better understanding of our organization and the stakeholders involved. So. That really built the foundation that I have here at Emory. But standout moments, certainly I've been, again, very lucky to be a part of some major capital projects, including the hospital tower, which that's a once in a lifetime project. So, I knew immediately once I was presented with the opportunity that it was something that I was really, really thankful for the opportunity to do. So, bringing that tower online with the team we did with the clinical leaders, you know, moving patients, all of that was just so significant and impactful for the teams, for the hospital, for myself, so one of those once in a lifetime.

And then, we just actually completed about a $90 million buildout for Heart and Vascular. And that one has a special place in my heart. They actually had a plan in place, and then COVID hit, and we had all vendors off site, we stopped all construction. And Heart and Vascular actually said, "You know what? This is not exactly what we want. We would rather build a business case for our ideal state." And so, I was part of that one from the inception, creating the business plan, working with the teams to understand what the need was for the patients here in Atlanta, here in Georgia; what the challenges were for the providers here at EUH, you know, cramped elevators, not the type of care, the technology, or innovation that they wanted to be able to provide patients. So, developed that business plan and then got to see it come to life. We just built out a new ICU and then a procedural platform that is just stunning, and the team is really excited and it just was an amazing project to be a part of.

Host: And this just opened, right?

Keeli John: It did. It just opened at the end of March. So, they are currently operating over there and everything is going well. It was probably one of the smoother transitions that we've had. And I will add something fun since this is around women in leadership. We actually had an all-women led team from the contracting side, project management, the owner side, and architects. We had really amazing women leaders. So, that was a really, really, really fun team to be a part of.

Host: That's awesome. I love to hear that and just love to celebrate those successes, you know. And you mentioned something before about your career path. Just being open to experiences, right? And just the exposure to things. So, going from strategy to your current role, to leading design and construction and planning for these really complex facilities, can you talk about how your background in general helps with the work you do currently?

Keeli John: Yeah. So, I mean, strategy, I think that one of our key purposes and roles within the strategic planning office was to serve as an unbiased but trusted advisor for the teams that you're working with. You are presenting data in a very clear, understandable way. You're thinking about visuals. You're thinking about deliverables and how do you best pull together information to tell a story. And so, I think that that has carried over in my most recent role and then will in my new role in that, you know, you're working with, and I've been working with multidisciplinary teams pulling people together, being able to ask questions to end up where we need to be from a final picture. And I am not an EBS. I am not a physician. I am not a nurse. So, I don't know all of that information, but I can facilitate the conversations to be able to get the information we need to make decisions around medical equipment and design. So again, I think that facilitation and then the organization that carries over from a strategy background, all of that infrastructure and organization has been helpful.

And then, planning, design, and construction, sure, they are short-term projects and, oh my gosh, this has happened, how do we resolve it in the moment? But especially with an organization as big as Emory with multiple hospitals and many outpatient clinics and locations, it's not just the short-term planning, it's the long-term strategy. So, working with our executive leadership, our hospital leaders, our service line leaders, to make sure that we're not thinking too narrowly, that we're being innovative, that we're thinking five, ten years out, and making sure that we're being good stewards of our finances. So, really, that long-term view and seeing the big picture is and will continue to be helpful for me in this role.

Host: Yeah, I think that's great. You know, these projects take a lot of time and take a lot of resources. And so, I think it's really easy to kind of get going down a road. So, having that ability to keep the whole picture in mind and make sure that you're moving in the right direction as a team is just phenomenal.

Okay. So, I want to talk about challenges. For women in general, I think it's often difficult to feel like you're ready to take the next step, or like, how do I know that I'm going to be good at this if I'm doing something new? You've taken on some new roles, taken on some new responsibilities. So, how did you navigate that?

Keeli John: So, with a background in strategy, I had a couple opportunities that were presented to me that were definitely the other end of the spectrum, all operations, you know, management of clinics, things like that. I knew that that wasn't the direction. I wasn't prepared to make that full swing. So, that in and of itself was a challenge. You know, where do you go beyond strategy, but you don't want to go all the way to operations. And I'd heard people say, "Oh, we've made the leap and then we've gone back. It doesn't work."

So then, when I was presented with the opportunity for the hospital tower, that role was really the intersection of strategy and ops. So, that was a great way to kind of blend what I was doing with where I thought I wanted to go. But that's a challenge. Again, there's not many of those opportunities that exist, that intersection of strategy and ops. So, that was great.

And then, I was very intentional knowing where I thought I wanted my career path to go. So again, it was very iterative. But I had to be very intentional with knowing what direction I wanted to go. So, that in and of itself was a challenge because you're trying to grow in your career, but you don't want to make a decision that then paints you in one light that you can never go back to another area. So, I was very intentional with that.

Host: So, what does your network look like? Do you have some standout mentors and support teams? Because I think that's so important, right?

Keeli John: Yeah, I think that I do have some mentors. And now that I've been exposed to the planning, design, and construction world, one, I had a great mentor here and someone who retired recently, but David Pugh was our VP of Construction and Facilities, and he was a great mentor. Very different working style from myself, but learned so much from him. He gave me great advice when I was really interested in this and wanted to be seen in this light and I'm saying, "Okay. Well, what courses do I need to take? What classes? How do I learn more about architecture? How do I learn more about construction?" And he said, "Keeli, you're not going to be an architect. You're not a contractor. You need to focus on your strengths and rely on your subject matter experts and pull them in to help you in these projects." So, he was one and continues to be.

And then, my last boss, Matt Wayne, was a fantastic leader. I actually really look up to him so much and how he manages teams, how he gives his direct reports autonomy and encourages them to lead and make decisions. I mean, really actually, when he came on as my new boss, he really, really challenged me constantly to lead. I'd say, "Oh. Well, I do this. I facilitate this." And he would just look at me and say, "No, you lead this." So, he was excellent in just really giving that confidence to go beyond where I was.

Host: That's great. And yeah, I've been doing a lot of thinking on mentors, especially male sponsors and mentorship and what that looks like and how it's successful. And I think there's kind of like two ways to do it. There's the guiding and then sometimes there's the pushing. You know, sometimes we need pushed and sometimes I need a good shove from somebody and say, "No, no. Do it, just go." So, I think that's great.

Keeli John: You did. And then, within planning, design and construction, it's so exciting to see how many female leaders there are in this industry. And it's really fun to connect with all those individuals. And so, I'm excited to continue building that network with everybody in that industry.

Host: Yeah, that's great. Continuing on, we talked a little bit about how you know you're ready and navigating those challenges. I want to talk a little bit more about struggles and conflicts because, you know, we talked about this, like we want everything to be easy, right? That's the goal of life, is to wake up and not have any bumps in the road and your day is planned out and everything runs smoothly. But I think that the reality is that growth doesn't happen when things are easy. You have to have struggle, you have to have conflict, and that's how you grow and that's how you learn. So, can you talk a little bit more about some of the challenges and the struggles you've had and what you've learned and how you've grown?

Keeli John: Absolutely. One specific challenge that was more environmental, not something from a personal standpoint, but I mean, COVID was a huge challenge that affected my role, where most people were going home and working from home. We had to go in a lot, and we had to figure out, okay, where's the next location that we can search into? Where can we throw ceilings back in? Where can we create a M*A*S*H style triage area? What's our medical equipment? And so, basically, leaned into that. And it was exciting work, even though it was a really crazy time for everybody and a significant challenge, but looking at the solution from all aspects, space, medical equipment, staffing, how are we going to do this, how are we going to take care of patients. So again, even though it was a really awful time for a lot of us, it was really exciting and challenging. So, I just leaned into that and saw it as the opportunity that it was to help take care of patients in the community in the way that I could, which was non-clinical. So, that was exciting.

And then, with anything, I mean conflict, anytime you're building out a space and have a lot of stakeholders and opinions, and there can be significant conflict around the design, around the use of dollars. And so, really managing all of that and trying to facilitate those conversations, understand the concerns that people have, and try to work through those in a way that makes it feel better for everybody. So, you can't always please everybody, but I think that I work to make sure that everybody is engaged and excited about projects. And then, just over time with conflict and struggles and challenges, I can pivot really quickly, and then things just really roll off my back when it comes to any sort of significant conflict or drama or anything. I used to get very up in arms and, "Oh, my gosh, this is going on," and now it's, "Okay, well, we have a barrier. We have a conflict. How are we going to solve it? How can we solve it?" So, I actually tell my kids that they're like, "Oh, you build things." I'm like, "We solve problems every day." That's what we do, we solve problems. So, I try to carry that from work to home with little ones that are frustrated. We solve problems. How do we solve it? How do we solve it?

Host: I had the same conversation with my four-year-old this week, because she's kind of really a perfectionist and she's doing something and she's like, "It's not perfect." Like, "Listen. What is it we're trying to do? It's not perfect, but you're going to keep working at it," right? So, I think that's great. Yeah. So if you were to go find Keeli at App State when you're just starting out, what advice would you give to yourself?

Keeli John: I would tell myself to get more involved early on and to get more exposure. That's something that I really said. I came from a medical background family, so I had some exposure to careers. But I wish that I had really just taken that more seriously and done a bunch of internships, traveled a little more, done things that helped shape my path a little earlier. I want to encourage my kids, as they get older, to think about things differently, to look at other people in industry, and understand what people do, and try to find the things that really spark their interest. So, I knew that planning was always of interest to me. I just innately have that in me, but the planning, design, and construction. If I had been exposed to that earlier, maybe I would have gone this path a little earlier. So, exposure, experiences, bottom line, that's what I would think.

Host: So, what is it about planning, design, and construction? What is it about it that that you're most excited about?

Keeli John: It's just so exciting to be able to-- I mean, again, I don't have an architecture background, but working with those individuals and being able to see how they take what clinicians say, and then interpret it and then design these spaces that can transform the way that we're caring for patients. And then, all of the engineers that you look at an empty space, the Heart and Vascular space was a cavern that we used to use for storage. And you look at what it is now and astonishing. And as I said, our contractors and the dedication that they have to the clients and the owners. Everybody was fantastic on this last job. Just so excited about the work that it really makes it so much fun. And I love that every day is different. And that's actually not something that I knew about myself early on either. You know, I sat at a desk, I was working at a computer. And now I crave going to spaces and going to different teams and working with individuals. So, it's just the newness of each job. It's the getting exposed to all of these amazing individuals. I mean, hearing about the procedures that these clinicians do, you're just in awe because you're just with some of the smartest people. And it just makes it really, really fun. You learn so much with each job from every aspect. I mean, I'm constantly learning and that makes it just incredibly exciting.

Host: Yeah. That's great. I agree. I think it's phenomenal. So, I want to talk about motivation. You're obviously at Emory. You talk about being around some people that are doing just incredible things. Emory is obviously such an incredible leader in the industry. You're also a mom. And can you talk a little bit more about what are those things are that really motivate you to keep you going?

Keeli John: Absolutely. My work is really important to me. More maybe than I ever thought it would be, I guess, if I look back to a long time ago, but I love coming to work. I love doing something new each day. Like I said, meeting new individuals, learning new things. The team here at EUH has been fantastic. I'm pulling together individuals, none of which there's a reporting structure, that are eager and so wonderful to work with, especially in those challenging times and conflict. I mean, I always joke that people may see my phone number and say, "Oh gosh, it's her again." But they never do and they're always just wonderful and gracious and such wonderful partners. So, that motivates me to be able to pull these teams together, to be able to solve problems. So, that motivates me.

Now, I'm especially excited to be able to expand what I do to the system level to understand what we're doing currently and what opportunities exist. How can we streamline things? How can we make it easier for our teams? Our facilities teams work so incredibly hard. And so, how can we lift some of this and make it easier for them when it comes to bundling projects and assigning project managers just to support those teams. So, I'm incredibly excited about that and really motivated.

It's certainly a long game. This will be years worth of work. So, sometimes I have to slow it down, pump breaks, because I'm like, "Oh my gosh, we need to do this. And I've got this to do." But one step at a time. And I'm really excited about that.

Host: Well, again, that strategic framework, right? Where you're able to prioritize and set your milestone. So, I think that's great. Yeah. Okay. So, you're in this new role, you've got a lot of initiatives. What's next for you?

Keeli John: So, I'm excited to build a team. So, I'll be bringing on planners and project and program managers. We'll be looking at streamlining our contracting process. We'll be working with the partners across Emory Healthcare, including Emory Digital and Finance and Risk and Quality and Contracting, Procurement, again, just to really kind of take it easy, have kind of a governance, have a vision, have a strategy, and then be able implement that.

And then, personally, really excited to be doing this podcast. I've done some speaking engagements over the last year, which are really fun. And so, I want to be able to get out there more a little bit professionally within those networks and present and continue to network within the industry. And I really want to build something sustainable at Emory Healthcare that we can look back and say, "Wow, I can't believe that three years ago, five years ago, we didn't have that." Now, we do and it's successful. So, that motivates me. I'm really excited to do that.

Host: Well, I'm so excited. I just want to thank you again for taking the time to talk, to share your story. I'm so excited about the work you're doing here, about what you're doing for women leaders. You know, you're such an inspiration, and I think you're going to do something great and I can't wait to see it. So, thank you.

Keeli John: Yeah, let's connect in a few years and we'll see what happens.

Host: Absolutely.