Bill Klaproth (Host): This is a special podcast produced on site at SHSMD Connections 2024 Annual Conference in Denver as we talk with keynote speakers and session leaders direct from the show floor.

I'm your host, Bill Klaproth, and with me is Anthony Cadieux, the Executive Director of Performance Marketing at AdventHealth, and we have Carolina Anthony with us as well. She is the Executive Director of Digital Brand and Content Strategy at AdventHealth as we talk about marketing personalization in healthcare, unveiling the wizard behind the curtain. Anthony and Carolina, welcome.

Anthony Cadieux: Thanks for having us.

Carolina Anthony: We're so happy to be here.

Host: Yeah, happy to talk to you. So thank you so much for stopping by our little podcast booth here at SHSMD Connections 2024. Carolina, let me start with you. So how do you define personalization in healthcare marketing and what does a successful personalization strategy look like for AdventHealth?

Carolina Anthony: Great question. I think oftentimes when you hear the word personalization, it can mean a lot of things, but at AdventHealth, we define it as tailoring our messages to consumers and patients based on their healthcare needs. Ultimately is putting the right message on the right platform at the right time of the healthcare journey, all while staying on the right side of HIPAA compliance so that you can ultimately do what we're all trying to do best, which is safeguard consumer trust, right, and ultimately improve health outcomes.

Host: Absolutely. Anthony, something to share on that?

Anthony Cadieux: Yeah, I agree with what Carolina was saying and I just want to take it a step further. I think in the context of healthcare marketing, a lot of times you hear about personalization for marketing purposes, which is great. And I think it's where everyone should start. We want to make sure that patients are getting that personalized experience in a true end to end way.

So we don't want to just stop it once they come in through the hospital doors. We want to make sure that they're continuing to get a personalized experience once they're in-venue and then also post care. So it's that full kind of spectrum.

Host: And then you have another data point as well. Once they're in, you continue to build a story about that person.

So Carolina mentioned HIPAA, privacy concerns, which are very important. So Anthony, what steps are you taking to future proof your marketing strategies while still delivering this personalized experience?

Anthony Cadieux: This is a really interesting one. So, it's arguably the most important aspect of this process, which is the one that people don't often want to look at because it's the least exciting, which is data governance. So at AdventHealth, we've taken an approach of really looking forward and saying, how do we protect ourselves in a data compliant, data secure way, trying to actually anticipate years in advance where we think regulations might be going, and then holding ourselves to that standard.

So we actually did this looking back now to 2019. I can easily say that we were one of the first systems in the country to put cookie consent on our public facing website, to the point where people were like, why are you doing this? It's like, because this is where this is going guys, right? And so if we stay ahead of the regulation, then we're actually future proofing our strategies, because if some new, unknown law comes out, then we don't have to scramble around and try to adapt to whatever that law is telling us we now have to do.

And the truth is, if we look at this plainly, most people know what's coming. Now, whether or not we actually want to admit we know what's coming or we like what's coming, that's a whole other conversation. But we try to anticipate the worst and then adopt around that.

Host: So when you say people know what's coming, are you talking about consumers, or are you talking about the health systems themselves?

Anthony Cadieux: I think health systems, data security, data policy. I mean, we're in nine states now, and so we actually have to make sure that our policies align with whatever state data regulation policy is out there. And then we're like, oh, when is the federal policy going to come out? Hopefully it doesn't, but we all know that it probably will, right? So why not anticipate that?

Host: Right. So Carolina, let me ask you this. There seems to be a lot of myths and promises around personalization in healthcare. So what are some of the common misconceptions that are out there and what should we be cautious of when adopting these strategies? I know we just talked about data compliance and governance. What other things should we be aware of when it comes to personalization in healthcare?

Carolina Anthony: So I think there's a lot of misconceptions. You know, Bill, prior to coming to AdventHealth, I wasn't in healthcare. So I had the lay of the land and all the personalization toys, data at my fingertips with very little regulation and I can do all of the things. And the first thing I heard when I came to healthcare was we can't personalize. We're too heavily regulated. We have HIPAA, we have PHI, PII, there's no way that you can personalize without using that data. And the truth is that there is a way. We've been able to carve out some white space, all the while protecting our brand, safeguarding the trust of our consumers. I think the challenge, the misconception is we can't personalize. And I think the challenge is we just have to be more creative than most industries. But it is possible to do it.

Host: So how do you be creative and do that? So what does somebody need to know to get creative and actually do personalization as you say, and still be within the rules and the regulations?

Carolina Anthony: There's a lot of things they can do. First and foremost um, personalization takes technology. So you need to invest in a good technology tech stack and you also need to integrate your tech stack. You can have all the data in the world, but if it's siloed, you're never going to be able to build a robust consumer profile or segment that you can then personalize against.

Right? So that is really important. It's also really important to recognize that marketing can't do it alone. We are so interdependent with all of the teams within our system. We're all collecting data from consumers at different standpoints. And this is where data siloing can really hurt you. If you don't have strong systems in place to aggregate one source of truth of data on anonymized data, right?

We might not even know that it's Bill that has an interest in cardiology and lives in Denver, but we might know that user A lives in Denver and it has an affinity to cardiology. So then we can start better serving user A so that every time they interact with us across digital, they feel seen, they feel known.

We know that oftentimes we're two to three times more likely to interact with something that's personalized and that makes sense because we want to see ourselves reflected in everything we do, but especially in our health care.

Host: And I don't mind being known as patient A. I'm, I'm I just want to let you know that. So.

Anthony Cadieux: As long as you're not patient zero.

Host: That's correct. Thank Anthony. Thank you for that. That's absolutely correct.

Anthony Cadieux: I do want to just add one thing to that, if that's okay. One of the ways that we're creative is challenging previously held, just like what we call like known beliefs. Right, so Carolina touched on one of them, which is like, well, you can't do personalization. I'm also new to healthcare. You know, I came from the luxury retail travel space.

So I, you know, now it's been seven and a half years that I've been here, but I would ask questions in meetings. People would start having, you know, in strategy conversations and then people would mention the word HIPAA. And it was like the word of the day. Everybody would be like, oh, okay, we can't do this.

Like, wait, can we just have a conversation about this first? Like, do we really know what we can and can't do? So there's a lot of misconceptions in this space that we have to be brave enough to be able to challenge just like with an open mind. So, you know within the context of a healthcare consumer, one of the preconceived notions is that they actually don't want to have personalized interactions with us.

But now you're seeing data that's coming out left and right that says it actually couldn't be further from the truth. I saw a study recently that said 91 percent find it either somewhat important or very important; 91 percent of healthcare consumers. So when you think about all of the other types of interactions you're having with major companies right now, how personalized that experience can be.

I mean, I have a more personalized experience buying Cole Haans than I do when some of my medical interactions that there seems like to be kind of missed opportunity there.

Host: Yeah, if it's beneficial to the person, if it's helpful to the person, if you're adding value, then it's well received and accepted. That's really the value of personalization there, because people do want it. And, oh, thank you, I didn't know I needed that right now. Thank you. Or, thank you for reminding me.

Anthony Cadieux: Exactly.

Host: I'm so busy, I totally forgot about it. Thank you.

Anthony Cadieux: And can you protect the data that they've said, hey, I'm entrusting you with this. So again, going back to that data governance piece, we have to make sure that we are like ironclad tight, right, and that we are abiding by that trust.

Host: Absolutely. So, Anthony, can you share some examples of personalization of what you've done at AdventHealth?

Anthony Cadieux: Yeah, I'm happy to. One of the ones that we actually talked about in our Wizard of Oz session yesterday was around an OB journey. And so we've been gradually making this pivot away from third party data reliance and to first party data reliance. And again, under this assumption that consumers actually do want to give us their information.

So we previously built an OB email journey that was a little bit more kind of boilerplate, you know? I hate to say that, but it was just like, here's a standard OB journey. We didn't really know when they were coming in the journey. It's just like, okay, you're going to get your standard kind of email.

And it was, it worked great. I mean, it was beating benchmarks. But we decided to bring it to another level. And so we started making more dynamic content relative to who that individual was, if they'd opted in, which we have a good amount of our consumers who have opted in at this point. It's a very large number.

I can't share, but it's a good, it's a good size. And then we also asked them when their expected due date is going to be. And then based on whenever that due date is going to be, then we started actually putting them on a different email journey relative to when that delivery date was going to be and then also integrated that with the operational team. So they knew what information they were receiving and then it was also adjacent to the information that they would receive from the care teams. It's not all about KPIs but it is a little bit about KPIs and we beat our click through rate on that one by 6x the previous benchmark I mean went from two and a half to 15 percent click through rate. And for us, a core tenet is can we love our patients?

That's one of our four service standards. And so that's a big driver for our personalization strategy. We want to make sure that they feel loved, they feel heard, they feel seen. And so when I see a click through rate, yes, it's cool. Yes, I can talk about it in marketing meetings. But what that means to me is that they're actually getting the content that they need to help them on their healthcare journey.

Host: Yeah, that's a great example. Knowing the due date certainly allows you to give them the personalization of the care that they need at the right timelines during the woman's pregnancy. Yeah, that's cool. So you mentioned marketing before, Carolina, and with marketing departments being stretched so thin, how do you really launch this great personalization and balance this so you're not overloading the marketing department?

Carolina Anthony: I mean, I think there's a lot of things that come to play. First and foremost, you have to have the right tools to do it. I think oftentimes we try to do personalization with duct tape. And it's just not possible. You're gonna have to implement a lot of manual processes that require a lot of human capital.

So technology, automation, AI, this is really what's going to exponentially sort of release the pressure valve from your team so that they can focus on what they do best and sort of have technology take care of the more administrative task of personalization. Because to power personalization, for example, let's take the OB example that Anthony just gave.

There's all of this content that needs to be created to be able to be served in a personalized way, right? That's a lot of human hours that you can lessen if you have the right technology stack, which as a marketer, oftentimes, budgets, fighting for budgets is part of what we do. And so it's really important that you're not just it's going in and asking for investments in technology for the sake of having a cool tech stack, but really painting the picture for your system or your organization in what value it's ultimately going to bring.

So we're doing this, this is what we can expect, and then most importantly, measure it, right? And be able to admit whether it met your expectations or did not. I think oftentimes we are really quick and happy to share successes. But they're not all winners, right? You have to continuously test and experiment.

That's what innovation and personalization really are at the core or powered by. And so yesterday in our session um, Anthony and I shared an example that didn't go well. You know, we did all the right things. We had the right team, the right tech stack, the right processes, the right benchmarks and KPIs. We hit go and our personalized campaign underperformed significantly. And that's okay, because at the end of the day, you either are going to win through experimentation or you're going to learn. Which brings me to my second point about sort of reducing the burden on marketing teams, you really have to have the right talent. It requires a certain level of resilience, right, and a certain level of courage to put yourself out there, innovate, do things that haven't been done before, not have all the answers, and be comfortable in the uncomfortable. Some people thrive in that environment, some people don't, and that's okay. But you have to look at your talent and say, if we're going to do personalization, we have to have the right team members to power it.

Host: I think that's great advice. I love that phrase. You don't win or lose, you win or learn. That's awesome. And not everyone is be Yeah, that's really cool. This has really been fascinating. I do want to ask you, Carolina, you mentioned AI. It seems like AI would be really useful for personalization. Anthony, either of you can answer. Is that true? Is that, can AI help with this?

Anthony Cadieux: So, the short answer is yes. We joked, that's not my full answer, right? Yeah um, no, but

so we're using AI now in lots of different tools. As you probably heard earlier, even within the data regulation perspective, we tend to take, it's kind of like this interesting combination of very proactive, but also very conservative approach.

And so we're tiptoeing in the AI. AI isn't doing anything without like a human reviewing what they're doing. But in one example, right, we're using a technology to edit photos, right? It's not like that super interesting on the surface, right? But, and Carolina might have the actual figure on this, but the amount of time that it has reduced for photo editing is like kind of mind boggling. And then going back to the talent question, it's like, well, who was actually doing this editing? Right, like very smart, very strategic designers who are wasting, not wasting, but spending a lot of time editing where it's not, okay, now how are we going to use that time, right? Can we run more pilots? And so that's like one way that we've used AI and it's working well for us.

Host: Yeah, interesting. Well, this has really been cool. Thank you both for stopping by today. We appreciate it. Before we wrap up, I'd love to get final thoughts from each of you. Carolina, let me start with you. Anything else you want to add?

Carolina Anthony: I would just say take a risk, be courageous, don't be afraid to fail, learn, try, and then I also think as healthcare marketers, we owe it to each other to share our learnings, so don't hold on to the information. If you have things that are really working and resonated, put it out in our community, put it out in our industry, elevate the healthcare experience for the consumer across the country.

Host: Well said. You're very inspirational. You're inspiring us. Thank you. Anthony, final thoughts from you? Wrap it up for us.

Anthony Cadieux: Yeah, I mean, I think again, if we keep KPIs are an important part of the conversation, but if we can keep the consumer and the consumer benefit and why we're ultimately doing this at the center of our decisions; it removes some of these fears that we have around personalization. Like a lot of times you hear around like the creepiness factor, like, wow, how do you know all of this about me?

It's like, well, if you tell them and you ask them, then they won't feel creeped out by it because they'll know like, oh, I actually gave them this information and hey, this is actually benefiting me. And then the other piece is let's shift the conversation in marketing away from cost and towards investment, right?

And this is something that people sometimes wary to have this conversation, but it's not okay this program is going to cost X amount of dollars. It's hey, CEO, this program is going to give you a 10 to one return. And we've proven it out. If I could get you 10 to one on your stock portfolio today, would you, would you, right? Exactly, right. So why aren't we having those same decisions as easily? So let's get a little bit away from costs and into what the return is going to be.

Host: Yeah, that's a good point. Shift the mindset away from cost to investment. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, thank you both for stopping by today. I appreciate it.

Anthony Cadieux: Thanks for having us.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. And once again, that is Anthony Cadieux and Carolina Anthony, and we hope you enjoyed SHSMD Connections 2024. If you were unable to attend, you can access all of the recordings at shsmd.com. So if you want to check out the session that Anthony and Carolina did, you can certainly watch that. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and please hit subscribe so you get every episode. You don't want to miss one cause they're all so good. Come on now. And everybody knows this.

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