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intro: This episode is part of a special Women In Leadership Podcast series.

Host: So really excited to bring another podcast together today from the Society for Healthcare Strategy and Market Development, focusing on amazing female leaders in our industry. I have the absolute pleasure to be here with Danielle Gathje. She is the Vice President of Hospital Operations for M Health Fairview St. John's. Did I get that right?

Danielle Gathje: You got that right.

Host: Awesome. Danielle, I'm so excited about this conversation. A little bit of background. You know, we've been hosting some of these special podcast series for SHSMD. Really just focusing on highlighting female leaders in healthcare and having them just share a little bit about their background and their career trajectory.

Because I think a lot of times we go into a role or an industry thinking we have to have it all figured out, and I've just been so amazed and surprised by the women that I've had the pleasure to meet, just learning about how they pivoted, how they changed, how they refocused and used all of the history and all of the, the knowledge and expertise that they've had that they've gained and continue to carry it forward. So I'm really excited to talk to you today. So let's just get into it.

Danielle Gathje: Great. Well thank you so much for having me, and thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Host: Absolutely. So Danielle, why don't you give us a background of who you are and what you've done and kind of how you got to this point.

Danielle Gathje: Sure. So a little bit about me is I actually went to school in Stevens Point, Wisconsin for my bachelor's and got a bachelor's degree in biology. But I minored in chemistry and safety and health protection. Safety and health protection was a little bit of an add. I was really on the pre-med side thinking that I would be on the provider side of healthcare and during our genetics term, and my roommate went home and she was really struggling with it and she came back and she goes, I think I'm going to take the safety and health minor as a backup in case I want to be on the support side of healthcare.

Or you know, in between, I said. That sounds great. We had all our classes together, like we met in our first couple of days of college, and so I was like, I needed a second something. I wanted either a second minor or a second major, and I was like, that sounds great. So we graduated and nobody tells you if you graduate with a general degree that there's no jobs right after that, that you just, you kind of go into the pool.

And so either you have to continue to go to school or you have to find something along that path that gives you some experience. So I worked at a pediatric clinic in Minnesota for a year, shadowed a couple of the physicians. They let me do some intakes, you know, try to see what that was like. They did a lot of that, hands-on training.

Got to do a little bit of everything there. And I thought, well, I'm going to go back to school. So I was taking some classes at the U thinking that I would go on the provider side. And one of the big things is they wanted some hospital experience. And so I had done some volunteering when I was in college, you know, just at the hospital, transporting patients, guest services kind of thing.

But then I got a job at United Hospital in St. Paul and, thinking that I would get into the program and I got waitlisted. And so I started as an admin. About three months after that, I got recruited into employee safety. And six months after that I got recruited by facilities to do safety and emergency management.

And then once in facilities, you just other duties as a site. And so, I mean, you start to learn a lot of things and I really just never looked back because I really enjoyed it. The first thing a new leader said to me is, oh by the way you're going to do emergency management. And on Fridays we spend the first four hours of the day in the conference room because we have a major construction project going on. And so I just got to learn a lot and through that process and get different things to be able to do. I was responsible for fire safety and hazardous waste and training for employees, and that year that I started was the Republican National Convention.

So, started in January of 2008 and we had the Republican National Convention September of 2008. So I got to learn a lot. Lots of on the job training.

Host: Yeah. That's amazing. So I mean it awesome to hear you reflect on it because, I mean, it sounds like there was a lot, probably a lot of stressful moments, right?

Danielle Gathje: A lot stressful moments because you probably just didn't know what was gonna happen. It was a little fluid in those first couple of years.

Host: So I'm just curious, thinking back now, obviously you have the beautiful benefit of hindsight being in this role you're in now, but looking back, how were you able to stay flexible and positive? You entered into a lot of roles that were new for you, so can you talk a little bit about kind of how you mentally managed all that?

Danielle Gathje: Yeah, I mean, you learn a lot in those first couple years after college like what is a real job? But I had the benefit that when I first got hired as an admin, that leader was extraordinarily helpful.

He knew that I wasn't going to stay long, he still wanted to hire me. He actually told me that. He goes, I'm just hoping you stay enough time to be able to like help our department. And I didn't know what that meant because I was like, you're just brand new. You have no idea what's going on. Yeah. And I knew what I didn't want.

Because then you, kind of navigate a few things. But once you surround yourself with the right people and you have a good team, that is when I think everybody starts to really flourish, is that, you get people who encourage you and even when they're trying to teach you, they're not teaching you in a negative way. They're teaching you in a positive way to help you grow. And I think that I was fortunate enough within that first couple of moves, to really get people who saw something in me that I didn't recognize. Because when you're early in your career, you don't always recognize some of the things that you can bring to the table.

And you have to have other people that recognize that in you first, and then they help you start to become that leader or that person that they see some of the qualities. But you're just not there yet Because you're just focused on what you're trying to do because you've never done it before.

Host: I think that is such a amazing point. Even in conversations prepping for this just striking me now, the fact that being able to identify the mentorship that you've received and the importance of the team, I think that's something that's really important that we all need to understand and think about it. Because as we have team members coming on board and as our teams grow and we have new people coming into the industry and in our field and our roles, that's really important, being able to find those things in people that they can't see in for themselves and help nurture that is really, it's really powerful.

Danielle Gathje: It is really important, and I've had the benefit of that and I've met throughout my career other people who do that. And I try really hard to be able to do that now myself, to be able to support other people as they look for what they want. You have to identify the characteristics and help them, but then ultimately help them find the path that they're looking for. But being able to be there for them to be able to find that and to be a sounding board or just help them find the next direction.

Host: Yeah, I just think that's great. So, understanding, you've done a lot of different things, you've got a lot of experience in a lot of different areas. Can you talk a little bit more about your current role and what you oversee and how you use some of those experiences and lessons learned and apply it to your current role?

Danielle Gathje: Yeah, so I started at St. John's eight years ago. Actually last week was my eight year anniversary. We celebration. Oh, congratulations. It was super fun. So I started as the facilities director. I became then the east region for Fairview. So several hospitals and during COVID, I decided to go back and get my master's degree.

The interesting part, I think part of it is, just being a science major and a biology major. I took it, you know, I'm not a clinician, but just having a lot of that background when COVID happened and kind of all the things that you see, you're like, this is going to be a while. And so my kids were at a point where it was like, okay, if we're going to take a little pause for sports and things, this is the right time.

Otherwise life gets really busy and so. When I went back to get my MBA, it really gave me a great perspective. So I went to the University of St. Thomas and really it was a cohort model, so it was physicians and nurses and insurance people who worked for United Healthcare and just a lot of different perspectives.

And so I learned a lot during that period to be able to get the role that I have now. I then, right before I graduated, I got this role as the Vice President of Hospital Operations, and my role is really surgery reports to me. The emergency department reports to me, and then also we have on matrix organizations, we have service lines and domains, and so to be able to make sure that we are really doing a lot of cross checks and have a broader perspective across the organization, but indirectly, the support services departments report to me, so EVS, nutrition, facilities, imaging. So they all have like dotted line reporting structures because they report up through the service lines, but then they'll report back to the VP of ops because it has all that other operational components to it.

Host: Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about the challenges throughout your career and kind of how that's shaped your path?

Danielle Gathje: Well a lot of challenges are, it seems weird to talk about, but it is a fact that, you know, as a young female getting into facilities was a challenge. I started safety and emergency management, which it was probably a little less challenging. You know, there were quite a few people in emergency management on the county side and the hospital side, but not necessarily for facilities.

So when I started taking on more of that facilities role, being a young female and without an engineering degree, really was a challenge. There was people who really thought, well, can you do this job? Do you know what you're talking about? How do you know that? You know, those kinds of things. And interestingly enough, a lot of jobs are on the job training anyway.

Yes, you have to have a foundation. Yes, you have to be able to know the business side or some of those things, but, you also learn a lot as you go, no matter what career path that you take. But those were some of the challenges. And so as I took on more responsibilities, I took on the maintenance department.

I still had a job title that said emergency manager. And so when we did some restructuring, there was some confusion about my role because I had this job title that was a little different that didn't really match my job description. And so I worked really hard that year to show the administration that I knew all of this. I actually earned my CHFM, which is a certified healthcare facility manager designation through the American Hospital Association in 2015. And after I earned that, I applied for the engineering manager role that had opened up at my previous hospital. And so with some encouragement honestly, from some of the leads in the departments, which was really, really helpful.

You don't know how people are going to respond when you transition roles and their support was very helpful for me to make that decision because there was so much kind of barriers in my path necessarily. So once I got that though, it was interesting because you're having a different title and then having that certification really changed some directions for me and was able to do the things that I wanted to do next.

Host: Yeah. So it sounds like a mix of advocating for yourself and building support. Right. So internal, just relationship building seems like it is part of it.

Danielle Gathje: Yeah, it is a lot of support and some of it is, again, your network of people. You know, people that know who you are, that believe in you, that trust you, that you have to prove a little bit that you know what you're doing.

Because it's not just about who you are. You have to still be competent in your abilities. But, sometimes when you walk into somebody who doesn't know you, if you don't have that advocate or people that are on your side, it's a little bit harder. And so you have to be able to navigate those challenges and be persistent. I consider myself pleasantly persistent, so I like that.

Host: That's a very nice way to say it. Yeah. So I obviously, I mean, you're still just getting started, so you have a lot, a long way to go. But as you look back, I mean, can you point to some of the standout moments that you've had in your career so far?

Danielle Gathje: I'm so fortunate. I've had some great moments. A lot of it again, has to do with the teams that you're with. And so my previous team, when I was in emergency management and we were doing the Republican National Convention, like we got to learn so much. I got to do things that, most people never get to do, meet different people.

We got to do some really interesting activities. After that, we went out to Pennsylvania with the city of St. Paul to do a couple of days training and they brought like the community members, their city team, police, fire, you just learn a lot. I was on a all hazards incident management team. The, the state of Minnesota has a type three all hazards incident management team.

And after Hurricane Sandy, we actually got asked some of them earlier. I got to go with a second team where we were doing some cleanup. So we were in a bunker in northern New York, which was very interesting because you were in a hole in the ground. Like it's a Oh wow. A big trap door that you walk down the stairs.

And I was early pregnant. Oh gosh. But I really got to learn a lot. I got that real world experience was pretty incredible meeting different people, seeing how different people do different things. I've always been very fortunate to be surrounded by great teams. My first team was awesome. Like I said, they mentored me.

They saw things in me. They're my good friends. They continue to be good friends of mine, and we stay in touch. And then I met people through ASHY and through the local chapter here, and then through the national chapter and have gotten to do some fun things that way. It kind of helps me balance the day-to-day work, the grind of the work.

Because we all have that. And then some of the things you are really passionate about, you get to do education. I love telling people why it's important and helping them see how it helps them do their jobs a little bit better through fire safety. We did a fun video. It's like how the Grinch saved the holidays or something and just super fun things that I never thought I'd be able to do, but it's really been a great opportunity and it's really about the people and the network and all the different things that you get to learn along the way.

Host: And so ASHE, which again, can you explain what that is?

Danielle Gathje: ASHE's, the American Society for Healthcare Engineers. So I've been a part of that since 2007, very early on in my career, was encouraged to do that. And it's a professional membership group as part of the American Hospital Association. So, they have a couple of different members and they have local chapters, and then they have the national organization. And so I've been fortunate to be a part of local chapter boards. And then also now I sit as their advisory board member for Region six, which is Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and the Dakotas.

And then we have the relationship with the Canadian Hospitalist Engineering societies. It's been a really great experience that way.

Host: That's awesome. So it sounds like you're just the constant learner, so, you know, is that accurate?

Danielle Gathje: I, it is pretty accurate. I really do like to learn. I think it just makes life a lot more interesting. And as you learn things, you get to meet new people or explore new paths that you may never knew was possible. And in healthcare there's so much to learn, whether you're on the support side or you're interacting with the clinicians and it's ever evolving and growing. So. Yes. To answer your question, yes. Yeah. I love to learn. I think it's super important to what we do, but I also intrinsically just find it very fun.

Host: One of the challenges that women face in particular is a level of comfort in taking on new challenges and taking on new roles. I mean, it's, it goes back to that imposter syndrome or that feeling like we're not quite ready yet. So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, you've obviously had to do this multiple times in your career, taking on new roles and advocating for yourself. So can you talk a little bit more about how you knew you were ready for the next role and what that looked like?

Danielle Gathje: You know, I think that's hard because sometimes you don't know you're ready, but yet you still take a little bit of a leap of faith. And again, like I said, I had people around me that saw things in me. When I took the role here at St. John's, that was really hard for me. I really didn't expect to do that. It was a step up in a role for me. I went from the engineering manager to the engineering director, and coming into a new team was hard because you don't know them, they don't know you.

They were pretty skeptical of me, which was really interesting. They told me after the fact. But one of the first things we had to do was fix non-compliance issues with the life safety code and I came in and you try as a new leader to not just rush in, but when you see something that's super obvious, you're like, okay, we need to fix this now.

And because of that knowledge base that I had built, because I have had the opportunity to do so many different things, it's also taught me how to communicate a little differently as well. And so I think being able to communicate to a broad audience of people has helped me when I have to build trust with a new team or build that confidence in that people can have in me. And so I think that's helped me a lot. But it is a challenge every time you take on a new role and you have to be okay with some of the gray space that happens as you navigate that.

Host: Yeah. So this is one of my favorite questions. What advice would you give yourself as you were starting out? If you could kind of rewind and go to Danielle back way back when, as she's starting out, just finishing your undergrad. Like what would you tell yourself?

Danielle Gathje: Yeah. I was thinking about this and I was like I would probably say don't let your ambition hide the joy. And the reason that I say that is that when you start early in your career, you're just so eager to like suck everything up and what is the next thing? And you're, just trying to prove yourself so much. And so you, that ambition typically in the beginning is, overwhelming.

Almost. Not, overwhelming is probably not the right word, but it is a lot. Because you, you are trying to prove yourself. And I think that I wish, and I do a lot more now and I don't know if I wish, but I would tell myself, enjoy it a little bit. Enjoy the fact that you're able to do all these things instead of just looking to the next, and that it will happen and it'll happen in its own time.

Because we all have setbacks. I had setbacks. I had people tell me, you're not ready. And that was hard, honestly, like. I was not expecting them to tell me that. And you have to take a little bit of time to swallow that a little bit. But I'm grateful looking back at it because it did require me to slow down a little bit and enjoy the part that I was missing.

Because I was just looking to what the next adventure or job or whatever that was. Because you have these expectations during college, after college of what you're going to do. It's like a high school student. Where are you going to college? What are you gonna do? And you don't always know those things, but you feel like you have to be moving to the next, or have that path instead of just really absorbing the moment and enjoying it.

Because it goes by really fast. I mean, that's the truth of having kids, your job, your life. You know that saying of the days are long, but the years are short. And so enjoying the time in the moments that you are doing that work and that it really is making an impact. And so you can reflect on the things that you did, which was great, but you wish you would've really enjoyed that to soak it up and even learn from a little bit better to continue to work through those things.

Host: I think that is such a great message because especially as female leaders, I mean, I think it is something like there is a drive that's required, right? And it's like, go, go, go. You're not succeeding unless you are conquering. And I think it is such a powerful and important thing to remember that, our time's limited and so we have to slow down sometimes.

Danielle Gathje: Yeah. And just take the time.

Host: Yeah. I think that's great. Obviously, you've got a lot of things going on here. You've got a lot to look forward to. What's next for you? What are you working on?

Danielle Gathje: Well, right now we're working on a lot of things at St. John's. We're really, like I said, I've been here eight years. I've been in this role about two and a half. We made a lot of changes to St. John's in the last couple of years. Almost four years ago, there was some changes that happened that we moved the cath lab procedures over here. We moved cardiac open heart procedures, and during that time that we were building some of those programs, we had to build a new OR we had to build a CATH lab.

We were just growing at such a fast rate that we've really started to exceed what normal operations would be. We're always at peak capacity, peak momentum, and patient flow, which is great. My role now is to help us really build upon some of that work that we can do to not only standardize it because we know that there is still more healthcare to come.

I think it's 2030, don't totally quote me, but one in five people will have a cardiac diagnosis. And those come with other more morbidities. And we as a hospital have to be ready for some of that. And we're becoming a tertiary care center where we're taking on a higher acuity. And with that, we're trying really hard to grow some of our programs.

Just trying to really create good culture. You know, culture is really important when you're taking care of people. You know, that's the thing that I love about healthcare is that we are in the business of people. Whether you're on the support side or the clinical side. And so my role as the VP of Operations is to really help bring all of that together to help them do, and my teams do the best that they can for their work so that we can help people.

And so that's what we're really focused on, and we have to do that in a ever changing environment as far as what's going on with the healthcare c hallenges and where we're seeing people that have left because of COVID. We're seeing, I actually was watching the news the other day and they were saying, millennials don't even have primary care providers. They use urgent care and Ed, this was on the news. And I thought, oh man, that's going to be a problem. Because we did that like 10 years ago. Yeah. And the healthcare industry had really helped drive. But with COVID, we've just had a setback and now we gotta help that forward a little bit to be able to support people where they are, but help them be more proactive, but also provide that tertiary care here at St. John's.

Host: Yeah, that sounds exciting.

Danielle Gathje: It's exciting. You know, we're very fortunate because our role is all about the human impact and that human impact is so important, and I find that's the part that our everyday challenges, we have barriers every day that seem to come up, but we try to celebrate the little wins that we get and celebrate our teams that do all of that hard work because it's a lot sometimes.

And so those are the things that I'm focused on right now is just helping my team be the best that we they can be so that we can support our patients.

Host: That's great. I just wanna thank you again for your time, for sharing your story. For sharing your message, and I've really just thoroughly enjoyed it. So thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Danielle Gathje: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for asking me, and I really appreciate this opportunity.