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Sarah Brownell (Host): So excited to do another of these interview series, highlighting these amazing female leaders. Thank you to the Society for Healthcare Strategy and Market Development for providing this amazing platform to share these stories. I am Sarah Brownell, the Strategic Growth Director for HDR Architecture. And I am just so excited.

I'm sitting here on a beautiful day in lovely Mountain View, California with the incredible Tracey Lewis Taylor, the Chief Operating Officer at El Camino Health. We're going to talk about all of the amazing insights that you have to share. So, this interview's a little bit different than some of the other ones we've done. Well, they're all different. But this one is really a particular one that I'm excited about, because I'm going to go in a little bit of different direction than I think others have before. So, we're going to explore some new insights and talk about some ways where, you know, just learning how we can learn from you, Tracey. So, I'm very excited to have you. So, thank you for doing this.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Thanks for being here. it is a lovely morning, a little bit crisp. Yes, it's been a cooler summer. Really happy to have you, and thanks for coming to my office.

Host: Oh, I'm happy to do it. I'm so excited for this. So, let's dig in. So, first question I want to ask you, maybe we start off with if you could just share a little bit about your background career trajectory and how did you kind of get to this point.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Sure. Probably like most people in healthcare, there's always a why. And I should probably note that when I was eight, I had a serious medical event while I was in the operating room. And I obviously don't remember that medical event. But I think afterwards, as my parents have always sort of told me that story, it really made an impact on me. And since that point, I've always known that I wanted to go into healthcare.

I think, like most kids, I didn't necessarily have a lot of role models in healthcare. My family wasn't in healthcare. And so, I only knew of the opportunities of being a doctor or a nurse. And so, I had sort of my heart set on I was going to be a doctor. So, I went to undergrad and took my freshman chemistry class thinking this is my pathway to med school, I failed miserably, like literally failed freshman chemistry. I don't think it was because it was an 8:00 AM class. I think it was just because I was not smart enough to do well in the course. But I also realized I didn't really want to be a doctor. I didn't really want to go to med school. And so, I really had to find how I could still fulfill the sort of passion and purpose of wanting to be in the healthcare space without being a doctor.

But I had the opportunity in college to be in a freshman health class. I think it was a required class, but it was taught by students that were a part of the School of Public Health. And I was fascinated, just really enthralled. And so, I did an undergraduate degree in Psychology and Sociology as sort of a stepping stone towards Public Health, which really sort of aligned with where I saw my core values start to align.

So, I focused on policy and management and learned how our healthcare system was structured. I had the privilege of studying abroad and taking some comparative healthcare courses, learning how our system was structured, how the UK systems were structured, and got my start there.

So, my whole career was really based on understanding the healthcare system. I started healthcare consulting as my first job. I sort of laugh at those experiences. I had really great opportunities in, at the time, what were the big accounting firms and the healthcare consulting divisions of those accounting firms. Great opportunities to learn and grow in those spaces. But I joked at the time, I didn't really want to be on the road forever. Everyone says, you're young, you're single, consulting's a great field. And I joked that I didn't want to be old and single. So, I really wanted to get into the provider side of healthcare and really being responsible for owning the recommendations that, as consultants, we were oftentimes sliding across the table.

So, I did that consulting faux pas, if you will, and had the opportunity to be hired by my client to implement some of the recommendations that we had proposed, and that was fantastic and, again, really taking the opportunity at that moment to implement recommendations and being accountable to see if something actually worked. It's a great career opportunity.

Host: Great learning opportunity as well, I think—probably, yeah.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Phenomenal learning opportunity. Yeah, I will say fortunately those recommendations worked. But we were responsible for recommending a consolidation of business offices from individual entities into a regional structure, which still exists today for that client. So, I'm really excited about seeing that.

Host: That's great.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Still in practice 25 years later. So, that was exciting. And while I didn't obviously stay with that particular employer 25 years later, a really great opportunity to build something from scratch.

But my sort of next move was probably one of the most pivotal of my career path. I left that particular employer, moved to New York—what I will say—on a whim as all good New York City moves go, and really started a great career with successive growth opportunities; moving from what I would call an internal consulting role to taking on more roles that were larger in scope, leading business operations and the like.

And I always joke, the rest is history because my experiences in New York and in New York-Presbyterian were really foundational and pivotal to where I am today. And I would certainly not be sitting where I am today without the professional opportunities and without the mentors at New York-Presbyterian.

Host: Yeah. So, that's amazing. Just hearing you share that story, a few things stick out to me and you're talking about at a young age, having the awareness of, "Okay, I failed this chemistry class," and it's definitely because it was 8:00 AM, it's not because you're not smart, I'm just going to say it.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: But I don't think it could pronounce half of the words in the course.

Host: But I think that having that awareness at a young age of, "Okay, maybe not this. But there is something else." And it takes not only awareness, but also, I mean, one of the things that we talked about was a real clarity on—and you mentioned it—you know, the purpose that you found through that next phase of going and studying public health, studying abroad, how that purpose really fueled and helped you define your values. It's really clear that that's something that's a core part of who you are as a leader.

Can you share how you were able to identify those values? I mean, even at such a young age, I think it's just amazing, but just in general. What was that like for you and how did you come to crystallize that so well?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: I will be honest, since I don't know if I knew in that moment what those core values were. I really think that identifying those values was a skill that has developed over time with both professional maturity and personal maturity. A lot of reflection, a lot of good executive coaches that have helped me along that way. Some of those core values were honed at least by the professional values, I'll say, when I decided to leave a job probably 20 some odd years ago that I just didn't love. The job was fine. The organization was fine. Like, independently, all of those things were fine. They just didn't really align with what I really wanted to do. I didn't love the work, I didn't love the location, I didn't love the environment. When you think about all those things collectively, they didn't really feel congruent to who I was an individual, and I just didn't feel like I was really bringing, you know, as they say, my best self to work.

And so, when I look back, I think about that experience and think that was probably the best decision-—or the best experience I should say—because it taught me so much about what I didn't want. Then, I often talk about that experience to whether it's interns or folks starting out in their career, because I think we all have those experiences that we go through. And in the moment, it seems so big and so overwhelming and so much of a miss in our careers or our lives that this is the worst thing that could happen to us. But it really isn't. And again, I think that, you know, when we "make those mistakes," if you will, early enough in our lives or in our careers, they are recoverable. And if you can reflect on those as opportunities and learn from them, you gain so much more in the future. And so for me, I think back about that moment as one of the best lessons because every successive decision that I've made, I've sort of looked back on that experience and thought, "Okay, does my next job, does my next move feel more congruent? And am I looking at this as checking all of those boxes and have I learned something from that experience?"

Host: That's so important, and it's such a great reminder of that, because we are all going to make mistakes and we are all going to make decisions that aren't necessarily the right ones. And you can either ignore it or you can learn from it and choose to really call on that to help you develop. And it's important.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Right. And it's not always perfect, but I think the sweet spot is it's incrementally better. If we can be incrementally better versions of ourselves in the future, then we've won, we've been successful.

Host: And I think it's also in alignment with what I've heard you talk about, about wanting to be your authentic self and being true to yourself. Because I think a lot of times we say, "Well, no. I said I was going to be a doctor. And I want to be a doctor, so I'm going to do this no matter what." But really learning about where you get your joy, where you get fulfillment, where your purpose is met, and being okay to let some of those other past assumptions or past ideals go to really focus on the things that really do fulfill you.

I wish I had learned that faster, but I guess I feel like I make mistakes quite a few times. But you know, I think that's really great. Okay. So, you made a couple moves. You talked about a couple of the moves you've made over time. As you reflect on those more pivotal moments in your career, can you talk a little bit about how mentors have shaped you? And how those experiences helped you become the leader that you are today?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: I think it's a great question, and I'm probably going to name a couple names of folks that have really been influential in my career and have really shaped my career trajectory or how I've thought about things in my career.

So, mentors, I think, are obviously incredibly important. We talk about that a lot. I think the mentors that I've had are certainly no different. They've acted really as catalysts for my career growth. I mentioned earlier the experiences I had both personally and professionally at New York-Presbyterian were invaluable to my career growth. And I certainly wouldn't be here today without those experiences.

And in particular, I think that the mentors that I had there were so instrumental in helping to ask crucial questions that helped me to think about my career differently or maybe to help me see what I was capable of being in a way that I hadn't necessarily self-reflected on. Again, I sound like I really have my life figured out. But again, in those moments, I don't necessarily think that I was as attuned to maybe I am now looking back in the rear view mirror. And so, naming names: Rick Evans, who's now their Chief Experience Officer. At that time, he held a different title, but he was really just an instrumental mentor in helping to shape my career trajectory.

In that moment, I was a director of finance and compliance supporting our ambulatory care and support services, business operations. So, I was responsible for business planning, I was responsible for budgets, and so supporting operations. I would often be the person to slide a document across the table and say, "Here's what you should do." And I would gleefully walk away and let somebody else take accountability for whatever business decision and whatever outcome came from that business decision.

And so, Rick said to me, "Well, there's this other position open that's leading operations." And I said, "Well, okay, that sounds interesting, but I have a job and I love my job," et cetera. And he asked me a really pivotal question. He said, "Well, do you want to support something or do you want to run something?" I looked at him quizzically and I said, "Well, I run my team, I run my department. I had probably six or seven team members that I was accountable for." And he said, "Yes, but your role is really to support something," because, as I mentioned, my team slid the piece of paper across the table and said, "This is what you should do." And we walked away letting somebody else take accountability. And he really pointed out that difference between supporting the operation versus running the operation, having the accountability for patient safety, for quality, for the patient experience, for finance, and for, you know, all of the things.

And I thought that was a really important question. And I reflected on that for probably a day or two before I had to make a decision. And I thought, "Well, I don't know if I'm going to be good at or like or enjoy or feel passion and purpose running an operation, running and being responsible for clinical operations." But if he sees something in me that I haven't necessarily seen in myself, maybe it's worth a shot. And that move from supporting an operation, from being the director of finance and compliance supporting ambulatory and support services to becoming the Director of Clinical Services overseeing and being accountable for clinical operations, for infusion and endoscopy and cardiac cath was the pivotal moment in my career, and I think set the trajectory for where I am today. And I very much owe that change and that transformation to the question that Rick Evans posed to me some 15 plus years ago.

Host: This is really important, because I think that it is so powerful for somebody else to open—you know, obviously what he did was he opened your eyes to the fact that it's okay to give yourself permission to be a leader. And I think it's kind of crazy that sometimes, as women leaders, we need that to give ourselves that permission, because I think a lot of times it's seen as too ambitious or it's too bold or it's okay to support things and it is, but you can also be a leader, and that's great

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Yeah. And to realize that the skillsets that I had, while different, were transferable, were applicable, and that the leadership that I had in my role could be translated to running a clinical operation. And that I didn't have to have a clinical degree to be successful in that space. And that he saw something in me that I didn't inherently see in myself. And I think that we all have the power to do that for others. And I think that's what our purpose is as leaders.

Host: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that, obviously, this is a moment that really shaped you and impacted you. I think that so many of your team today would probably thank him as well for opening you to that opportunity, because you are making such a difference across your organization. So, thank you, Rick. Thank you.

So going back to making these moves, going into new organizations kind of as you've grown in your career, I think feedback is a big part of that. And I think this is something that female leaders often struggle with too—and maybe every leader struggles with it, honestly—but particular female leaders.

But I want to talk about feedback. Because not all feedback is good feedback. But some of it is hard feedback and it's the best feedback. So, how have you incorporated feedback in your own development? And then, do you have any advice to early careers on how to seek it out and evaluate if it's good for you or not? Just let's talk about it a little bit.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Well, let's start with the advice question first. So first, feedback is a gift. So if you're lucky enough to have someone in your career or in your life who respects you or your work enough to give honest and specific and hopefully constructive feedback, you have absolutely won the lottery. These people really care about you and your career development. And I think just as much as they care about the success of the organization, I think that's really important. Leaders should obviously care about the success of the organization, but there's congruence there. If they care about the success of the organization, they need to care about the fact that you as an individual leader, you as an individual human, also contribute to the success of the organization.

And so, there are really two pieces of advice that I can give around the topic of feedback. And the first is that you really need to develop the muscle to ask for feedback. Not every leader is really comfortable giving and proactively giving feedback. And I think it's incumbent upon each of us to be able to ask for it and to seek it out. Developing the muscle to ask for it, being specific about what type of feedback you're looking for, I think, is really helpful. And that helps, I think, to direct the type of feedback you're looking for, from whom you're looking for that feedback from, I think will make it more valuable, more meaningful, because it inherently implies that you trust that person that you're getting the feedback from.

And I think that's the second piece, is that if you're not proactively seeking it out from someone you trust, and it's what I'll call unsolicited feedback, making sure the person that's giving you the feedback, that you're taking the time to evaluate do you trust that person. And I can't underscore that point enough.

That feedback comes to us from all different points in time from all different places, and only you can really decide whether you trust the person, whether you respect them, whether you value their input, and whether you agree with the input that's being provided. But the bottom line is feedback is really just somebody else's perception of this situation or whatever it is that you're doing. And so, even if you don't agree with it, you have to understand that it's someone's perception of their reality. And so, you have to do something with that feedback.

The second piece of advice, which is just as critical as number one, that you have to actually ask for, you know, feedback for people you trust and respect, is that you actually have to be open to receiving it. And I think that's the really hard part. And I think probably the lesson that I will admit that I wasn't so great at in the early parts of my career. I'll probably bring my mother up in the podcast, so shout out to my mom.

Host: The original feedback.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: The original feedback provider. But I think in an earlier conversation with my mom, related to some feedback that I'd gotten in earlier days of my career, I came home from work and was telling her about some feedback. And she had said, "Well, that's great, but can't they tell you something that we didn't know since you were in kindergarten?" And I sort of looked at her and I said, "Well, then why didn't you tell me this before?" So, it is sort of funny that she probably did tell me, but maybe I just wasn't open to hearing it in the same way. But in all seriousness, and again, I'm going to go back to naming names midway through my career, maybe I was open to hearing it from different people. Maybe it was just different when you don't hear it from your mother. But I did have a few lottery tickets come my way in terms of people that I really respected and valued in the workplace, who gave me really great feedback.

So again, back to my New York-Presbyterian Days, really pivotal for my career. Two individuals come to mind. Rob Guimento and Jackie Mucaria, both were just really consistent about giving feedback, and I respected and trusted each of them. So when it came time to deliver difficult messages, I was ready to receive it and valued not only what they shared, but understood that them sharing feedback with me not only signaled to me that they valued my place in the organization, but they valued me as a leader. And they recognized that by giving me this feedback, that it wasn't just about what I would contribute to the organization, but feedback that I could carry with me. This was 15 years ago, and I remember these conversations like they were yesterday. And again, I appreciate that they valued and cared for me enough to want to give me that really honest and direct feedback in a way that nobody else had up until a point.

Host: So, this might be off script a little bit, but when we've met before, you told a story about—I don't know if it was one of those individuals that had given you a piece of feedback in a meeting.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Rob  Guimento, in particular, was exceptional. And he and I were in a meeting with our finance leaders presenting a business plan to fund an outreach program for community-based outreach programs to support patient's with asthma. And we were poised to not only present the financial data, but also sort of the operational and business case. And as our finance folks walked in the room, there was chit-chat that happened, obviously, you know, before the meeting. And we sat down to start presenting the business case. And every time I started to present the financial data or the operational data, Rob would interject and answer a couple questions. Finance team would ask some more questions and Rob would defer and say, "Yep, we'll get back to you." And I would, again, sort of quizzically look at him and think to myself, "Well, we have this information, why isn't he letting me answer?"

And we would sort of do this dance for about 15, 20 minutes. And he'd let me answer a couple questions. But for the most part, the majority of the questions that the finance leaders asked, we deferred and said, "Yep, we'll get back to you." And I was, again, dumbfounded thinking we have all of this information. We had done so much prep work. Rob and I, like most things, we were aligned. He knew that I had the information. And we were well prepared to answer all of their questions. And so, the meeting ended. No decision point on funding this business case. And we agreed to follow up in a couple weeks.

So, I went back to my office and I was angry to say the least. I had prepped, I was prepared, and I was confused, because I knew that Rob knew that I had all the answers and I'd done so much work. And so, I went back to my office. And for me, that standout moment was when Rob called me about an hour after the meeting and I picked up the phone, it was my desk phone, by the way. This was how long ago, there was no cell phones. And he said, "I know you're angry. Do you want to talk about it?" And I said, "Yes. What happened?" And he said, "You didn't read the room." And I paused and he said, "If you remember the first part of the conversation, the chitchat before the meeting really started, finance leaders talked about how they had just come from the finance committee of the board meeting and they were lamenting all of the issues that had just come up during the board meeting, and they were in no position to give us a yes on this particular business plan. This particular business plan was not a patient safety issue. This discussion could wait. You need to learn to read the room." And I sat there and I absorbed everything he was telling me, and It was like a ton of bricks just hit me. It's probably not the right expression, but it wasn't about the specific feedback. I mean, it was. I learned a little bit about reading the room, but it was also just the fact that he had enough respect for me, one, to let me cool off, because I was angry. And that he called me within an appropriate amount of time to give me the direct feedback and to give me the valuable lesson that I needed to learn. And again, it really showed me that he invested in me as a leader in my professional growth and development. And it showed me what good feedback looks like. So, Rick Evans, Rob Guimento, Jackie Mucaria. Collecting my names.

Host: Yeah. No, I think that's great. And that's such a great story. I just love that. And I love that, you know, we're here to talk about you and your journey and you keep mentioning all of these other people, which I think is just so fun and fundamental.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: I am standing on the backs of the giants.

Host: I think that's amazing. And now, you know, obviously, you have a lot of road ahead of you, but what advice do you have? Maybe go back to that girl that failed that chemistry class. What advice would you have for yourself as you were starting out in your career?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: I don't know if I even have the best advice that I would give my younger self. I sort of like my hindsight being 20/20 vision a little bit, but maybe I would give myself maybe two pieces of advice. One, have better glasses in the moment to really think about the here and now more deliberately versus just thinking about the future.

I would also give myself the advice to—I'm going to negate what I just said too—is start with the end in mind. And what I mean by that is everyone thinks about the title, you know, "I want to be this when I grow up," right? And they always think about a title or role, a specific job. Their version of success is tied to something really specific.

I would say that it's okay not to have that level of specificity when you are 10, when you're in college, or even when you're 20. And the reason I say that, instead I would change it and say, "What do you want your retirement party to look like? What's the feeling?" Picture the party, not necessarily the title. And to me, that really helped me to think about my core values that it wasn't necessarily about my ladder, but really about the core values of what was going to be helpful and instrumental in getting me to who I wanted to be and how I want to get there. And for me, I think, that was more important than the title on a cake.

Host: Yeah. I love that. And I recently read something kind of along those same lines about setting your 20-year strategic plan for yourself, but really not what role do you want to have, but what value do you want to bring? Like, what value do you want to bring to your career?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: And I think the latter, the title, the job is how you then achieve those values, achieve that purpose. It's through that role that you are able to accomplish the purpose.

Host: Yeah. So, what is next? I mean, you have so much that you have accomplished already to this point. Let's talk about what's next for you. What are you working on?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Well, so my day-today job, yes, still focused on that and some career aspirations built-in there. Outside of my day-to-day job and the career aspirations, again, purpose-driven career aspirations, I am working on an executive coaching certificate. I start class next week. Very excited about that. And that'll help me to pursue my passion for developing people. And then, doing things that are more outside of my wheelhouse, like being on a podcast. So, check. And we'll see what's next.

Host: That's awesome. I love it. How do you stay motivated and what really kind of fuels you and motivates you to keep showing up as you do?

Tracey Lewis Taylor: I love that question. And actually, I'll give a shout out to one of my current team members. He brought his kids, pre-teen kids, into work just last week. And his 10-year-old asked me what my favorite part of the job was. That was the first question he asked. I thought he was going to give a softball question, like, "What's your favorite color?" or something easier right? But no, he asked me favorite part of the job. And I sort of paused and did allow me the opportunity to talk about purpose, which felt really good and connected. And that is really what motivates me, is the strong sense of purpose that I have in the work and the ability to make a meaningful impact on others.

And I say others really broadly, because I think in healthcare the reach is broad. And I am humbled by that responsibility that we have to take care of others. We collectively get to improve the lives of patient's. We have the opportunity to support our staff, our caregivers, our team members. And we have the responsibility to advance the mission of the organization. And I take that responsibility really seriously every day.

I often say that my role is to wake up and think about the 4,500 team members that work in the organization, our 1300 plus physicians and every single patient that is in our care today, plus every patient or every community member that may think about being in our hair at some point in the future. And I love that mission, that responsibility.

But I'm also energized by opportunities to enhance quality, enhance patient care. So not just thinking about what we're doing today, but thinking about what that might look like in the future. And that caring isn't just about clinical excellence, but it's being responsive to every single individual's needs in that moment.

And I think about our duty to care from a clinical perspective, because that's what our patient's expect. But I think it goes well beyond that, and I think we all have our personal reasons for why we do this work. But I think about my family members who have been in the hospital, and I think the work that we do is incredibly purposeful when we think about beyond the clinical care, that somebody has to actually care, that they have to care if a patient eats dinner, they have to care that the patient is left-handed and know to put this fork or the spoon in the patient's left hand so that they remember to eat. It's that type of care. And I'm really passionate about making sure that we have all of the systems and structures in place so that we can do all of that important work from really advanced complex clinical care to very basic care at the bedside, heart care at the bedside.

Host: Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. Thank you for that. And thank you for everything that you do. I mean, it's such important work. I mean, I know this organization is just so much better for having you here, you know, at home. It is just amazing. So Tracey, I really appreciate it, and thank you so much for sharing.

Tracey Lewis Taylor: Thank you for having me today. It's been fun.

Host: A lot of fun. Thank you so much. Awesome.