intro: This episode is part of a special Women In Leadership Podcast series.

Sarah Brownell (Host): Hello. Thank you for joining. This is Sarah Brownell with HDR Architecture. I am super excited to bring another episode of the SHSMD Women Leader Interview series that we've been doing for quite a while now. Really excited to be in the beautiful summertime Seattle area with Sommer Kleweno Walley, CEO of Harborview Medical Center.

Sommer, thank you so much for doing this. I'm so excited to talk to you and to highlight some of your insights and your story and ask you some questions.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Thank you for having me, Sarah. I'm very excited to be able to have a chance to talk to you.

Host: Okay, let's dig in. So, first thing I want to ask you as CEO at Harborview Medical Center here in Seattle, an amazing institution. I was walking around a little bit before I came in here. A lot of history.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Lots of history

Host: Doing very, very important work in the region. Question for you, can you share a little bit just to kind of get us started on just an overview of your background career trajectory leading up to this point?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: So, Harborview is at the center of my career trajectory, and that's kind of weird. So, I grew up over in eastern Washington about 45 minutes from Pullman in a small farming town. And so, I went to Washington State University. And I majored in speech and hearing sciences and I wanted to do speech pathology.

And so, while I was getting my master's in Speech Pathology, I was told that the best internship you could have in that field happens over at the Seattle VA. But the caveat was, however, they don't take Cougars. They don't take people from Wazzu. And because they primarily focus on the University of Washington Speech and Hearing Science Program and feel that they are better trained to be going into this traineeship. And the traineeship, you know, in the world of speech was really important or kind of the thing.

The whole reason I wanted the traineeship was because I knew that everybody that got hired at Harborview to work as a speech pathologist came out of the VA, were VA trained. And so, I was motivated because if you live in Eastern Washington, at least when I was growing up, you knew what Harborview was and who Harborview was to the community, because that is where people would go for magic to happen, people to be saved to the worst of the injuries that would happen on the farms. They would get flown to Harborview, and I would always hear about that. So, I always had this kind of idea of what this institution was.

So, I went over and interviewed, got my little first suit. Never had a suit before. You know, got my little suit. My mom drives me over to the big city. I walk into the VA super nervous, but pretending I was super put together. And my mom was very, "You've got this. This is just fine," right? I walked in there, interviewed, knew I nailed it, left, went back home to Eastern Washington, and got the call a couple days later. So, that started me on my entire trajectory because that led to being able to work at Harborview clinically starting in 1997.

And my first job, i worked a few other places, because I had to work hourly for a little bit, but I got my foot in the door. And after that, I was hooked. So, I spent about 10 years clinical at Harborview, working as a speech pathologist, inpatient rehab, outpatient rehab. And then, on acute care ICUs and acute care floors, and quickly realized that I was always somebody that was looking for the next thing.

So, I'm somebody who, as I was clinical, wanted to become a clinical supervisor, and then wanted to become a manager, because I just kind of wanted what was next, but then quickly realized I had a ton of frustration with leadership at that point. And I had to kind of think about why was I frustrated with leadership and why did I think I could do any better. And I realized very quickly that in healthcare it was incredibly common and still is pretty common to promote people who are clinically good, but not necessarily leadership-trained. So, I went back and got another master's degree, because I realized I'm not leadership-trained either. I have no business acumen, I've never had leadership training, I haven't had any of that.

And so, I went back, got another master's in Health Administration from the University of Washington this time. And then, just began my leadership career trajectory. So, Harborview is always kind of at the center of it.

Host: That's amazing. Yeah, it was always the end goal.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: It was always the end goal. Not necessarily CEO, but to work at Harborview.

Host: It's great that you saw an institution that mirrored the purpose that you had always aspired to. You mentioned your mom as a champion for you, obviously, early on. We can hear it in your voice, which is awesome. It just makes amazing thinking about, you had to make a lot of decisions along these roads, you know, going back for another master's degree. Identifying kind of some of the gaps in leadership and doing that reflection. Are there other mentors or leaders along the way that kind of helped you set this path for yourself? Maybe talk about that a little bit.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yeah. When I think about—you know, I would say going back to my mom, my mom was a stay-at-home mom on a farm, right? But was very determined that all of her children have—you know, she had a lot of education, but she was very determined that her two daughters worked outside the home. And so, I think that was kind of my first inspiration.

I would say from a professional perspective, there wasn't one person that was necessarily the mentor, I would say. The last mentor before taking this role, who was the previous CEO, was more of a mentor than I realized he was being, because he picked me out much to my—I didn't really know—I was several positions below the CEO at that point. And I think he became a mentor because he started to push things on me. You know, got to know me and said, "Oh, guess what? You're going to take this on?" And I was like, "Uhm, yeah, yeah," right? So, I mean that was kind of mentor as in just giving me more and more things to do.

I think other mentors, I certainly was somebody who would definitely reach out, particularly to women leaders and meet with them and just ask what their pathway was. I did that a lot. The chief executive officer at UWMC, University of Washington Medical Center, who actually is retiring tomorrow after 40 plus years in different leadership positions. She was somebody that I definitely—her name's Cindy Hucker, and I definitely sought her out and asked for her to be a mentor as I was on the leadership trajectory. So, I purposely did it in different parts of my career.

Host: I love that. I think a lot of times when we talk about mentorship today, I think we look for, "Okay, what is the structured program?" What is the learning objectives? But I do feel like that's something that we don't recognize, and I think it's so important is that you can own this. You take the initiative and you can get out what you put in. But also, a great point about the CEO that sometimes we don't have a title on it, and we don't label it mentoring, but these are opportunities. Everything can be an opportunity. So, that's amazing.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: You're right. I don't necessarily, or didn't necessarily go down the path of the coaches, the executive coaches. I had an executive coaches at one point, but I definitely found what worked for me, was to watch people I admired in leadership positions, and then spend time taking the things that I really wanted to take away, you know, take with me from different leaders, and then things that I would be like, "Hmm, that's not necessarily a trait that works for me or I think works well, right? So, I really firmly believe that you need to spend time watching others, because you learn a lot about what you want to replicate, what you want to develop, and then what you don't want to replicate, what you don't want to develop, what works for you, what doesn't work for you. And that's observation. Watching, learning on the job that way, and just mirroring other leaders is important, particularly other women leaders.

Host: And I think it's good thinking about it in a positive light too, you know? I think a lot of times we look at things we don't appreciate. But I think looking for those qualities we want to emulate, it's definitely a lot more positive. It feels good.

Okay. So, we did the math before we started this interview 27 years, is that what we said? Maybe 28?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: We think maybe 28.

Host: Maybe 28. We can scrub the number. You've been here for a while. This is amazing. Can you talk a little bit about some of the standout moments in your career that really kind of set themselves apart?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yes. So, I think the first standout moment was going back to school and getting another graduate degree. Getting a second master's felt like a very big accomplishment at that point. But I think what was complicated about my trajectory was that, yes, I'm clinical, but I'm a speech pathologist, so I'm a rehab therapist, which is not a traditional pathway for leadership beyond the rehabilitation world leadership.

So, I think when I took that first step and was able to move out of being the director of rehab, which still had me pretty pigeonholed as a rehab expert, when I moved from being the director of rehab into an administrator role under the chief nursing officer, was the first time they had hired a non-nurse at Harborview to be one of the administrators under the chief nursing officer. And that was huge, because that was a huge accomplishment because, you know, nursing obviously is a hugely important part of the infrastructure of a hospital, the most important part of the workforce, right? The largest. But I constantly felt like I was coming up against that "You're not a nurse. You're not a nurse," right? So when I was able to get that position, that was huge. That was pretty groundbreaking.

And then, I would say the next was when I—and again, these are kind of opportunities that are brought to you—was when I was asked by the president, the previous president of the health system of UW Medicine Health System, Lisa Brandenburg, to take on a system and a couple different system projects. You know, one of which was being the incident commander for COVID. So when I was assigned that, that was pretty pivotal because, I mean, it was very large role, but it was also very visible, a very visible role. So, that was pretty big for me because it really set me up to feel confident that I could apply to the CEO role at Harborview and to be successful, because I was able to kind of show my leadership across the system and outside of just kind of the Harborview walls.

I would say those are probably the two most kind of biggest moments where I was like, "Wow, I'm getting a huge opportunity here."

Host: So, how did you know—these are pretty groundbreaking, right? You know, being the first non-nurse in this administrator role and not been done before, how did you navigate? How did you know you were ready? You know, how did you advocate for yourself? I mean, can you talk a little bit about that transition and how that happened?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: I think one of the most important things you can do is to find—particularly as a woman—to find leaders that you feel are on an upward trajectory themselves or are in influential places, and find ways to work with them, find ways to get you on their radar, right? I think one of the important things I did was to make sure I got myself in leadership situations where I could work with higher up senior leadership, eventually the CEO of the hospital, right? Like getting myself in places where I wasn't hidden. That really came from never saying no to opportunities.

So then, your question around how did you know you were ready, I don't know if I always thought, "Am I ready?" I think I thought more from the framework of you can't afford not to take the opportunity because it might not come again.

Host: So, get ready.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: So, figure it out. I think I had more of the attitude of you just better figure it out because this is an opportunity. And if you say no, it might not come around again.

Host: I recently read Daniel Pink's book about the regrets that we take in life are really about not being bold enough, and not taking risks. So, I think that that's a really, you know, just go for it. Figure it out and have that confidence in yourself that you can figure it out.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I think in leadership it was really important to kind of recognize, you know, in healthcare, people are so focused on you have to be a clinical expert to be a leader over areas and really coming to the realization that a leader leads teams in the institution. It doesn't have to be the expert everywhere, right? So, figure it out.

Host: So then, that's a great segue into the next question about how your background has helped you be more effective in your current role. So, is that a big part of that about thinking differently and how you communicate how you think differently?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yeah. I think there's probably two advantages i've had. One being clinical in the institution, I am now the chief executive officer over; and two—and this was somewhat on purpose, I will say, but very beneficial to me having been a manager or a leader of some sort over pretty much every aspect of the institution. So, there's not a lot of the institution that you can say, "I don't understand," or "I haven't been a part of." And that helps clinically, because I understand clinically how care delivery happens on ICUs, on acute care, in the ED, right, in the outpatient world. That's helpful as a CEO because you're not just making business decisions. You've got that clinical framework, that quality safety framework that you're bringing in.

The other thing that I think it's helped with is engagement of workforce and physicians. Because I either worked with you on the floors or I can go back and say, "You know what? I have been out there. It may not be now, and things are very different now, but I did work on this floor. I have been a frontline staff person," or "You know what? I used to work with you, staff member X." And I spend a lot of time diffusing stressful conversations when staff are upset or physicians are upset by kind of bringing it back to, "You know, wow, that's a really good point. And when I used to work on the floor," just to kind of reframe it, that I'm not a white tower CEO who never was out there experiencing what it felt like to be on the front lines, particularly in a place like Harborview.

Host: Yeah. You embrace it and you use it to—

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Help connect with the staff and, you know, kind of show that I'm beyond just the numbers. I care. And I also understand more than I think is pretty typical of a CEO who maybe goes from place to place to grow and climb the ladder.

Host: And I think that's really an important message in all of this, because I think a lot of times as female leaders, you go into a role a lot of leaders feel like—or maybe it's just me—you feel like you have to emulate attributes of what you perceive this role to be. But it really sounds like you kind of take more of an authentic approach of leaning into the strengths that you have and you bring, and the way you can connect and bring this expertise in a way where you know, can demonstrate the value. And I think that's really important.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: In that part, yeah.

Host: Yeah, yeah.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: There's certainly other parts where I feel like I have to emulate something. In my ability to go out and round and engage with staff and physicians and stuff, I certainly feel more confident in that, definitely.

Host: So, we talked a little bit about, I mean, obviously growing in this organization, taking on new roles. You talked a little bit about how you've navigated that. Just broader speaking, I want to talk a little bit more about struggles and conflict. You know, I think a lot of times we shy away from this. And we want everything to be easy. We want the path to be smooth. If there's an issue or a conflict or a struggle, that's a negative thing. But I think there's also a lot of opportunity to grow and learn and pivot and change.

So, is there anything that comes to mind when you think about your career to this point? Struggles or challenges that have stuck out that have been defining moments or talk about how you tackled it and have found the motivation to keep going? Because I think sometimes things can get really hard, and finding the motivation can be tricky sometimes.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yeah. You know, I think probably like a lot of us, when we were young and we started out, there was a lot and the world was a bit different 20, 27 or 28 years ago, right? There was a lot of difference in what was tolerated in the workplace.

So, I think struggles, and it started clinical, you know, you're this young, inexperienced woman who is working in a place where, you know, there's lots of male influence. And so, I think probably one of the hardest things I had to kind of navigate was just that you're a woman who dresses nicely and looks nice and then, you know, that there was a lot of association of, "Oh well, she's popular with the physicians over here, because, you know, she dresses nice" or "She's popular because of this," "She's getting opportunities because of the way she dresses or because she's cute" or whatever. That constantly happens. Now, I'll have to say, I don't know if it happens as much in your 50s as it did—

Host: There is the upside. I like it. I'll take it, I'll take it.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: I don't know if that's happened as much in the last couple years. But definitely, I think the combination of not being a traditional—I wasn't a nurse or doctor—so being a therapist, which, you know, there's a different, you know, hierarchies in a healthcare facility. And so, you know, you're not at the top of the food chain there. So, just kind of, "Oh, what do You know? You're a rehab therapist," and then, "Oh, you couldn't possibly be that smart because smart people don't usually look pretty, right?" That was not fun. That was not fun. So, that's been a common occurrence over 27, 28 years, although maybe we'll subtract a few now that I'm 51.

Host: So, kind of like as a follow on question to that though, what I'm hearing as you say is this is something I struggle with. This is negative feedback, right? Or this negativity and how have you—I mean, obviously you've proven it. You are incredibly successful. You're an amazing leader. How have you navigated those, that negativity? Because it can just suck you down. And obviously, you found a way. Any tips on that?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: You know, I think I ignored it and just kept—I think what I did was I proved myself. And just kind of said, "Okay, that's there and I'm still going to get results. I'm still going to deliver what I said I delivered." I'm still going to do what I said I was going to do, right? And so, constantly proving myself I think was important.

I think the other thing for women, and it still happens to me, is you constantly doubt the way you're doing things, right? I think one of the things that I think we get in our head more than men get in their heads, right? And we double, triple, quadruple think about conversations or circumstances or decisions we made, and we second guess it more than a man would do. And that I think has probably been a bigger challenge that has continued on compared to just kind of feeling like I needed to prove myself all the time. So, I think you prove yourself by proving yourself and not letting that insecurity get in your way, the doubting yourself all the time and feeling, you know, was I too aggressive in that meeting? Was I too harsh? Did I get cranky? Did I get too mad? I don't know many men leaders that sit in their office afterwards and say or text somebody and say, "Did I come across too harsh? Was I too mean to them? That I think is an ongoing problem that I continue to, like, find myself. Don't ask. You're a leader. You know, it's okay for you to give your opinion or to come across a little bit harsh once in a while. And frankly, it's probably not harsh. That's your own word. If it was a man, it would be direct, right? So, I think that's actually what I struggle with more now.

Host: So, how do you keep that in check? Do you have people, a sounding board that you vent out to?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: I do. I do. One, I self-talk.

Host: Self-talk. I love it.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Self-talk, like, "Don't doubt yourself. Don't doubt yourself." I think as you get older, you probably care—and care is not the right word—but you probably worry less about making everybody like you love you, right? But I also have a few key partners like the chief administrative officer that's right there that works for me, like chief of staff, chief administrative officer. I'll do checks with her and say, "Hmm, how do you think that was?" First thing she says to me is, "Why are you worried about that? Stop worrying about that," right?

Host: Yeah. We all need that. That's great. So, I do want to ask another question too. We're part of a strategy organization, even just hearing you talk about your story, about how you have intentionally looked at your career and, you know, finding opportunities, being observant. Can you talk a little bit about how you have thought about strategy, either in your own professional development, leading an organization, personal development? What's your focus been on strategy and how have you been able to think strategically?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: I would say professionally, very strategic. And I've given that advice to a lot of people where, from the point, I would say when I was in kind of an administrator role, I realized I could reach a CEO position. And everything I did after that was incredibly strategic to get there, meaning opportunities to ensure I was able to have leadership in all parts of the hospital, like, "Hey, can I take on X?" "Hey, I would love to take on Y," right? And so, continuing to grow that. So, my portfolio was growing and growing and growing. So, I can be like, "You know what? I've had experience leading all those." You know, I'm not just a traditional person who's only led in one area.

So, I did that a lot. I also purposely went to different people that I knew were in positions that if I could take that position when they left or retired, that would strategically put me in a place to be one step closer. So, I would kind of know what leader's movement was going to happen. And then, I would work with that leader, have that person be a mentor, and then that person would then be very much more apt to say to their leader, "Hey, I think Sommer would be a good person to take on this role and to take on more duties." And I kept doing that as I climbed the ladder. Relationships were huge from a strategic standpoint that also I was very strategic in ensuring that I kept good relationships across the system, so at the other hospitals and with physicians, you know, particularly physician leaders. Very relationship-driven from a strategic standpoint to grow.

I would say my work as a CEO is steeped in when I'm done doing operations, I am much more at the level of how do I strategically position Harborview to be successful and, at the same time, continue to deliver the mission. So, you know, just finished the big strategic plan that we are now implementing, figuring out now pivoting and strategically thinking about how we are going to deliver care differently with this Medicaid and, you know, how do I continue to be the largest safety net and not have good Medicaid reimbursement. All of that I'm going to do through strategically putting us into different partnerships, different alliances, different ways we deliver care, et cetera. So,

Host: Okay. A couple other questions. Thinking back, and obviously you've been in this role a few years and you have so much more ahead of you, but I want to think step back, look back when you were first starting out. So, that young woman who was walking into that interview with her mom as her hype person in the car, what would you tell her? You know, just give me your position right now. What advice would you give that person?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: The same advice everybody gives, which is enjoy life in the moment, enjoy each phase of life more. You know, I was so focused on career development. Enjoy the fact that I was single until I was 34. Like, I think back on that and I think, "Gosh, that was kind of cool. Why didn't I do more then, right?" And then, what every mom says, I mean, I wouldn't change anything about—even though it was really hard to go back to work and all of that, but not being as afraid to be like, You know what? I'm going to miss that meeting and I'm not going to be at work till X PM. I'm going to be at home just living in the moment and prioritizing my family more." You know, work-life balance means work-life balance. It doesn't mean getting out of working hard because everybody needs to work hard. That's part of life. But balancing more and appreciating more the time I spent with family, because it just goes by so fast. It does. It really does. My kids are 12 and almost 15, and I'm just like, "Oh my gosh." So, I'm really trying to live in the moment right now with them.

Host: That's great advice. And I can't agree with you more. So, what are the things that really motivates you? You're obviously a person that's really passion-driven leader. Can you talk a little bit more about your motivations?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yeah. The mission of Harborview motivates me. I know that doing this type of job with this kind of stress, I would not enjoy in another setting that wasn't able to stay as true to the community that they serve and the mission they serve. So, that motivates me. I also am very intrinsically motivated. I don't need to be motivated by others. I like to accomplish things. I like to be able to say, "You know what? When I'm gone or when I'm, you know, the next person, like they're going to find this place in a better place and they're going to be like, 'Oh, look at everything that that person was able to do.'"

And you know, I'm very, very motivated to ensure that Harborview is strategically situated to be financially viable. Over the last year, I was able to work with the state and then work with the King County to get the first tax for Harborview that it's ever had. Still working on it. We truly are the only county hospital in the country that we've ever been able for all our benchmarking found another county hospital that was not given tax money for operations for all these years now. We still haven't gotten it yet because we're still negotiating. You know, I worked with our government relations and we did this whole process through the state, and then through the county to get it passed.

So, that was huge. And so, a lot of what I'm doing right now is to think they've got a lot of more years in front of me. But this place is hard to keep running. So, how do I position it so it's here in 40 years, 50 years, 60 years?

Host: And especially in the current climate, this is a hard challenge. So, I think that kind of positions us for our last question really well. So, you know, thinking about everything that you've accomplished, all of these challenges, I mean, there's certainly no shortage of opportunities to continue to prove yourself and to do more, right? Which your dynamic of all of these strengths and this vision, what's next for you? Like, what are the things that you are focusing on now and and what are the things you're growing into?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: I am learning. This is ironic for you, guys. I am learning how the heavens I am supposed to oversee a very large campus expansion, a multi-billion dollar campus expansion. So, I think the next big opportunity, the next huge opportunity for the next generation of Harborview is to build this new tower that we have some funding to do. And in parallel, we finished the first campus master plan that Harborview's ever had. We didn't have campus master planning.

So as we are building this tower, we are in parallel developing the campus master plan that obviously will be iterated all the time. So, there's a roadmap that's very clear for the next CEOs and the next executive teams. So, they also understand the decisions we're making now and the why, because I can't tell you how many times I'm like, "Why did they build this like this when it doesn't make right?" So, trying to be very thoughtful in leaving a map for the next generation of leaders of "Now build here next, now do this next." Now, obviously, things will change. So, that's going to be probably the next eight years.

And then, I've done some nonprofit boards, but I'd like to get more into the board world. I think that would be a good transition of work as I continue to want to give back and as I kind of accomplish more in a CEO role, like that would be another outlet for my leadership. And then, enjoying my children and their final years before they go to college.

Host: I can't thank you enough, Sommer. This has been really just such a delight. I just feel so excited for this region, for this organization, and for your kids to have such an amazing inspiration. Do they know? Do your kids know what an amazing mom they have?

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Yeah, I do. Well, I don't talk about a lot, but it was pretty cute. I'll tell you a quick story, an interview the other day that was online. And I looked at it and my daughter under my husband's, you know, email, because you know she doesn't have her own, but she put in there in the comments, "Yay. My mom's awesome. She's the best." I was looking and I was like, and it actually was an interview that I was like, "Ooh," but I was so cute. So, there was all these comments and they were politically motivated comments about what was happening federally and et cetera. And then, there was this, "My mom's the best. Yay. I love my mom."

Host: That's the most important comment on that whole thing.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: That's the cute thing. I brought it out to my husband and he was like, "Oh my God, that is so cute."

Host: Well, I think it's amazing. Yeah. I think it's such incredible work you're doing. Such a great story. So, thank you so much for taking the time.

Sommer Kleweno Walley: Absolutely. Thank you for thinking of me and asking me. What an opportunity for me. So, thank you.

Host: Thank you.