Selected Podcast
Family Dynamics and The Importance of Boundaries
Mike Gaziano shares his insight on healthy family dynamics and the importance of boundaries.
Featuring:
Mike Gaziano, MSW, LCSW
Mike Gaziano was born and raised in the Midwest and chose Tucson for his undergraduate work in psychology. He is now a proud alumnus from the University of Arizona. He later received his master’s degree in social work from the University of Illinois. Bringing over 25 years of clinical expertise to Sierra Tucson, Mike worked in the Family Program from 2008-2017 before he became the manager for the Pain Recovery Program in August 2017. He has worked in the private sector and public sector as a social worker and is trained as a mediator and conflict resolution specialist. Mike has also provided his clinical skills to Pima County as a group facilitator for domestic violence classes. Transcription:
Scott Webb (Host): The pandemic has affected all of our lives and undoubtedly impacted our family dynamics as well. And here today to help us grow and maintain strong family communication and dynamics is Mike Gaziano. He's a Clinical Program Manager with Sierra Tucson. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. Sierra Tucson ranked the number one best addiction treatment centers 2020 in Arizona by Newsweek. I'm Scott Webb. You know, Mike, with the many changes due to COVID-19, family dynamics are intensifying. Relationships are challenged. Boundaries are crossed. There's been an increase in maladaptive behaviors, including substance abuse domestic disputes and relationship discord. So, can you provide a quick overview of family dynamics and things we should be aware of?
Mike Gaziano, MSW, LCSW (Guest): So, keeping in mind, that families are always families, even when there is like holidays or the seasons change. And one of the biggest dynamics within the family is who gets heard most and how has that response happened with each other? Now when you're under foot between each other, it can be quite a challenge because the dynamics become more intensified and more under the scrutiny of each other in the house where slight annoyances, you could remove yourself from that person and not have to deal with that particular situation. But now, seeing them daily and not being able to get out and socialize as much as you would like, can become highly stressful and activating for those that are on edge. And I think everyone has a level of being on edge right now.
Host: I think you're so right. And, when I knew that I was going to be discussing family dynamics, I was thinking about back when I was a kid, what were the dynamics in my home? And what are the dynamics in my house now? And especially during COVID-19, nowadays, with my kids, 13 and 17, we have a lot more conversations. Dad's often listening more than he's talking. And now you add in, you know, COVID and the fact that everybody's trapped at home, and there's only so many places to go to get away from people. So, it's really interesting times and so great to have you on. What are some of the healthy dynamics and what are the ones to avoid?
Mike: Part of the healthy dynamics is learning to mediate and to talk through issues with each other. You just shared that, you're willing to listen, rather than create a lecture because I always think of the old Charlie Brown show. And you remember when adults spoke, you just would hear them, waa, waa, waa. That's often what would happen with us as parents, or even as young adults, when we would hear our parents talk to us, it'd be like, I don't want to hear this doggone lecture. So, one of the cool things that's happened in our COVID world, is people are learning to listen to each other, to actually understand what some of the feelings and emotions are that are coming out in a conflict or a discussion.
And there's more receptiveness to try to mediate or work it out together. So, the good thing is that we're learning to actually communicate and understand each other more. The problem can be is that if we find ourselves in a power struggle with those that we love, it's hard to "escape" from that situation. So, we need to be mindful, to start creating a barrier or a boundary that says I'm just not gonna, I'm not going to get into this with you and we can talk about it later. Because when people are under foot, they do a thing called the train game. In other words, I say to somebody, I don't want to talk to you. So, I walk away, but they follow me around the house, much like a train, right? And so, as I'm trying to go from one room to another, to avoid the conflict or deal with keeping my cool and they're still coming at me, so to speak in wanting to resolve it now, that can be a challenge. And when you're in the COVID world or in a quarantine state, it makes it more challenging because there's not a lot of places to get off the train and go to your own sort of reclusive place to calm down and reflect.
Host: It's so interesting. It's like you're here in my house, Mike. It's like, you're describing everything that goes on in my house, where you try to get away because you don't want to lose your cool and people just follow you. And then eventually you find you’ve run out of room. There's nowhere else to go. Right?
Mike: And that's when you go, you know what? I better take a nice deep breath before I say something that could be hurtful to us as a family or as a couple, because we're human. I would say if you think of anything, think of the three F's, fried, frazzled and frayed. As family right now, we are fried frazzled and frayed. However, there is a tremendous level of resiliency and resolve that we're also gaining from this challenge that we're facing right now.
Host: Yeah, we definitely are. And you mentioned setting boundaries and the value of that. So, let's talk about that. What are the benefits of setting boundaries?
Mike: So, keep in mind that boundaries are not ways what we control, manipulate or change the other person. A boundary is how we respond that can be healthier. So, let's say you have a person in your house named Gretchen and Gretchen likes to call people names and is not always nice. So, a boundary may be as if you're going to talk to me, Gretchen and call me names. I'm going to end the conversation and we'll talk at a later time. So, boundary has a benefit because it fosters self-care. So, instead of me getting into a conflict with someone I love and care about, by me setting a boundary that I don't want to discuss this right now, or that we can reconvene and talk at a later time; it fosters a sense of love and care between each other versus resentment and hurt that often happens.
Host: And that's really what it's all about. Especially here in the holiday season is that love and care and making sure that we don't go too far. We don't say something that we regret or maybe we can't take back. And how do we enforce the boundaries?
Mike: Well, that's where you have to decide for yourself what is it that you're willing to enforce it by? So, it may be that we'll return and talk about it later. That's a mild boundary. It may be that I'll end the conversation and go to a different room. It's just a little bit of a stronger boundary. The enforcing of the boundary has to be based on what you're willing to do to hold firm. If you think of a boundary being a fence, it says, you know what you can't cross any further or push me any further unless you have, what's called a rubber fence where the more they push, the fence comes closer and closer to basically your face where you're like, I'm trying to set this boundary, but I'm not really reinforcing it.
So, it has to be your integrity to say that I have a right to be treated with dignity and respect and understanding. And if you're not going to engage in that way with me, then we're going to end this conversation or discussion until we can do that together in a more respectful way.
Host: Mike, for someone in recovery, why is it important to understand one's family dynamics?
Mike: Well, because of the fact that when we're in recovery, sometimes people are wanting us to return to the way we were before we started being active in our recovery. And keep in mind when we talk about recovery, we're actually talking about picking oneself up from a fall. So, it doesn't have to be that it was just a substance use issue. It could be trauma. It could be our anxiety, could be the internet, could be food, gambling; whatever it is that we struggle with. When we're active in our recovery, we are learning to take care of ourselves. Sometimes, sometimes families think if you're taking care of yourself, you're being selfish. So, you need to be understanding of the message this is self-care, not selfish. And in order for me to be helpful to you or to our relationship, I've got to be the best me so that I can be healthier, a person for our relationship moving forward as well.
Host: For some, it can be difficult to find a healthy voice to ask for what they need. So, how do we foster the opportunity for change?
Mike: So, when you don't feel like you have a healthy voice, that usually means that you're wanting to either keep it inside, and I just want to tell you, that resentment is an emotional relapse in waiting. In other words, if I don't, if I stuff my feelings, if I don't put out what I need, I don't express myself, and I can't find a voice to articulate that; then I'm usually going to stuff it. And if I stuff it, it's going to come out sideways and it could come out through anger. It could come out through substance use. It could come out through a domestic violence response where there's some power and control shifts happening.
So, one of the best ways to foster the opportunity of change, is to start to look at what are we in control of that we can change ourselves. I always recommend people to look at the concept of willingness and not what am I willing to do if they're willing to do, rather, what am I willing to do regardless of what they're willing to do to create a change. Because all you can do is change yourself and what you're in control of. And many times people think, well, this change needs to happen, and I'm going to try to dictate it and direct it from the other side. And really, you're only accountable to what you're going to do. So, the best way to foster the opportunity of change is to create an environment that you say this is for self-care. This is to promote the opportunity to find a healthy voice, to express what I need and ultimately to learn to first and foremost, respect and trust myself before I can re-engage with others in my life as well.
Host: Mike it's been so great having you on today. As we get close to wrapping up here, is there any other advice you can share with listeners?
Mike: Sure. What I would say is be understanding that oftentimes we get set up for the way that media presents itself, to think that things should be a lot more calmer and more joyous. And we have to be compassionate and understanding. Just because certain holidays roll around it doesn't mean we change the way that we deal with our relationships. We need to reduce the perceptions and the anticipation of how we think things will be and learn to work with the way things are and to have a more of a level of support and understanding within each other because of the fact it's a challenging time.
And if we just take some steps back, breathe, because I can't stress that enough, take some really full breaths in and breathe out and just sit where you are. I think you're going to find that we're all going to get through this and become stronger and wiser in the process.
Host: I certainly hope so. I think we will get through this. I think we will get through it together by listening to each other, respecting each other, lifting each other up along the way. It's been so great speaking with you. I love some of the references, the Charlie Brown reference. We don't have enough of those in these podcasts. I love it. Happy Holidays Mike you stay well and thanks for all this great advice.
Mike: Thank you too. You take care. Have a great day.
Host: Call (800) 842-4487, or go to Sierratucson.com for more information. Sierra Tucson, where change begins. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit from Sierra Tucson. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well.
Scott Webb (Host): The pandemic has affected all of our lives and undoubtedly impacted our family dynamics as well. And here today to help us grow and maintain strong family communication and dynamics is Mike Gaziano. He's a Clinical Program Manager with Sierra Tucson. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. Sierra Tucson ranked the number one best addiction treatment centers 2020 in Arizona by Newsweek. I'm Scott Webb. You know, Mike, with the many changes due to COVID-19, family dynamics are intensifying. Relationships are challenged. Boundaries are crossed. There's been an increase in maladaptive behaviors, including substance abuse domestic disputes and relationship discord. So, can you provide a quick overview of family dynamics and things we should be aware of?
Mike Gaziano, MSW, LCSW (Guest): So, keeping in mind, that families are always families, even when there is like holidays or the seasons change. And one of the biggest dynamics within the family is who gets heard most and how has that response happened with each other? Now when you're under foot between each other, it can be quite a challenge because the dynamics become more intensified and more under the scrutiny of each other in the house where slight annoyances, you could remove yourself from that person and not have to deal with that particular situation. But now, seeing them daily and not being able to get out and socialize as much as you would like, can become highly stressful and activating for those that are on edge. And I think everyone has a level of being on edge right now.
Host: I think you're so right. And, when I knew that I was going to be discussing family dynamics, I was thinking about back when I was a kid, what were the dynamics in my home? And what are the dynamics in my house now? And especially during COVID-19, nowadays, with my kids, 13 and 17, we have a lot more conversations. Dad's often listening more than he's talking. And now you add in, you know, COVID and the fact that everybody's trapped at home, and there's only so many places to go to get away from people. So, it's really interesting times and so great to have you on. What are some of the healthy dynamics and what are the ones to avoid?
Mike: Part of the healthy dynamics is learning to mediate and to talk through issues with each other. You just shared that, you're willing to listen, rather than create a lecture because I always think of the old Charlie Brown show. And you remember when adults spoke, you just would hear them, waa, waa, waa. That's often what would happen with us as parents, or even as young adults, when we would hear our parents talk to us, it'd be like, I don't want to hear this doggone lecture. So, one of the cool things that's happened in our COVID world, is people are learning to listen to each other, to actually understand what some of the feelings and emotions are that are coming out in a conflict or a discussion.
And there's more receptiveness to try to mediate or work it out together. So, the good thing is that we're learning to actually communicate and understand each other more. The problem can be is that if we find ourselves in a power struggle with those that we love, it's hard to "escape" from that situation. So, we need to be mindful, to start creating a barrier or a boundary that says I'm just not gonna, I'm not going to get into this with you and we can talk about it later. Because when people are under foot, they do a thing called the train game. In other words, I say to somebody, I don't want to talk to you. So, I walk away, but they follow me around the house, much like a train, right? And so, as I'm trying to go from one room to another, to avoid the conflict or deal with keeping my cool and they're still coming at me, so to speak in wanting to resolve it now, that can be a challenge. And when you're in the COVID world or in a quarantine state, it makes it more challenging because there's not a lot of places to get off the train and go to your own sort of reclusive place to calm down and reflect.
Host: It's so interesting. It's like you're here in my house, Mike. It's like, you're describing everything that goes on in my house, where you try to get away because you don't want to lose your cool and people just follow you. And then eventually you find you’ve run out of room. There's nowhere else to go. Right?
Mike: And that's when you go, you know what? I better take a nice deep breath before I say something that could be hurtful to us as a family or as a couple, because we're human. I would say if you think of anything, think of the three F's, fried, frazzled and frayed. As family right now, we are fried frazzled and frayed. However, there is a tremendous level of resiliency and resolve that we're also gaining from this challenge that we're facing right now.
Host: Yeah, we definitely are. And you mentioned setting boundaries and the value of that. So, let's talk about that. What are the benefits of setting boundaries?
Mike: So, keep in mind that boundaries are not ways what we control, manipulate or change the other person. A boundary is how we respond that can be healthier. So, let's say you have a person in your house named Gretchen and Gretchen likes to call people names and is not always nice. So, a boundary may be as if you're going to talk to me, Gretchen and call me names. I'm going to end the conversation and we'll talk at a later time. So, boundary has a benefit because it fosters self-care. So, instead of me getting into a conflict with someone I love and care about, by me setting a boundary that I don't want to discuss this right now, or that we can reconvene and talk at a later time; it fosters a sense of love and care between each other versus resentment and hurt that often happens.
Host: And that's really what it's all about. Especially here in the holiday season is that love and care and making sure that we don't go too far. We don't say something that we regret or maybe we can't take back. And how do we enforce the boundaries?
Mike: Well, that's where you have to decide for yourself what is it that you're willing to enforce it by? So, it may be that we'll return and talk about it later. That's a mild boundary. It may be that I'll end the conversation and go to a different room. It's just a little bit of a stronger boundary. The enforcing of the boundary has to be based on what you're willing to do to hold firm. If you think of a boundary being a fence, it says, you know what you can't cross any further or push me any further unless you have, what's called a rubber fence where the more they push, the fence comes closer and closer to basically your face where you're like, I'm trying to set this boundary, but I'm not really reinforcing it.
So, it has to be your integrity to say that I have a right to be treated with dignity and respect and understanding. And if you're not going to engage in that way with me, then we're going to end this conversation or discussion until we can do that together in a more respectful way.
Host: Mike, for someone in recovery, why is it important to understand one's family dynamics?
Mike: Well, because of the fact that when we're in recovery, sometimes people are wanting us to return to the way we were before we started being active in our recovery. And keep in mind when we talk about recovery, we're actually talking about picking oneself up from a fall. So, it doesn't have to be that it was just a substance use issue. It could be trauma. It could be our anxiety, could be the internet, could be food, gambling; whatever it is that we struggle with. When we're active in our recovery, we are learning to take care of ourselves. Sometimes, sometimes families think if you're taking care of yourself, you're being selfish. So, you need to be understanding of the message this is self-care, not selfish. And in order for me to be helpful to you or to our relationship, I've got to be the best me so that I can be healthier, a person for our relationship moving forward as well.
Host: For some, it can be difficult to find a healthy voice to ask for what they need. So, how do we foster the opportunity for change?
Mike: So, when you don't feel like you have a healthy voice, that usually means that you're wanting to either keep it inside, and I just want to tell you, that resentment is an emotional relapse in waiting. In other words, if I don't, if I stuff my feelings, if I don't put out what I need, I don't express myself, and I can't find a voice to articulate that; then I'm usually going to stuff it. And if I stuff it, it's going to come out sideways and it could come out through anger. It could come out through substance use. It could come out through a domestic violence response where there's some power and control shifts happening.
So, one of the best ways to foster the opportunity of change, is to start to look at what are we in control of that we can change ourselves. I always recommend people to look at the concept of willingness and not what am I willing to do if they're willing to do, rather, what am I willing to do regardless of what they're willing to do to create a change. Because all you can do is change yourself and what you're in control of. And many times people think, well, this change needs to happen, and I'm going to try to dictate it and direct it from the other side. And really, you're only accountable to what you're going to do. So, the best way to foster the opportunity of change is to create an environment that you say this is for self-care. This is to promote the opportunity to find a healthy voice, to express what I need and ultimately to learn to first and foremost, respect and trust myself before I can re-engage with others in my life as well.
Host: Mike it's been so great having you on today. As we get close to wrapping up here, is there any other advice you can share with listeners?
Mike: Sure. What I would say is be understanding that oftentimes we get set up for the way that media presents itself, to think that things should be a lot more calmer and more joyous. And we have to be compassionate and understanding. Just because certain holidays roll around it doesn't mean we change the way that we deal with our relationships. We need to reduce the perceptions and the anticipation of how we think things will be and learn to work with the way things are and to have a more of a level of support and understanding within each other because of the fact it's a challenging time.
And if we just take some steps back, breathe, because I can't stress that enough, take some really full breaths in and breathe out and just sit where you are. I think you're going to find that we're all going to get through this and become stronger and wiser in the process.
Host: I certainly hope so. I think we will get through this. I think we will get through it together by listening to each other, respecting each other, lifting each other up along the way. It's been so great speaking with you. I love some of the references, the Charlie Brown reference. We don't have enough of those in these podcasts. I love it. Happy Holidays Mike you stay well and thanks for all this great advice.
Mike: Thank you too. You take care. Have a great day.
Host: Call (800) 842-4487, or go to Sierratucson.com for more information. Sierra Tucson, where change begins. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit from Sierra Tucson. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well.