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LGBTQIA+ Allies and Understanding Those Who Are Non-Binary
Through education we put ourselves in a much better position to become an ally to those who are non-binary. Why would you we want to do this? To answer that question and more, we have David Cato, Clinical Director at Sierra Tucson. He is a certified Transgender Care Therapist and knows how important it is to consider the gender spectrum during treatment.
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Learn more about David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP
David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP
David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP began working at Sierra Tucson in April of 2008 and has served many roles, beginning in the mailroom. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Texas A&M University and a Master of Social Work from Arizona State University.Learn more about David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP
Transcription:
Scott Webb (Host): We all need allies in life. And this is especially true for members of the LGBTQIA+ community. And I'm joined today by David Cato. He's a Clinical Director at Sierra Tucson and he, and many others there are working to educate, foster alliances and mostly to create safe spaces where members of this community can feel safe to be themselves.
This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. Sierra Tucson ranked number one best addiction treatment centers, 2020 in Arizona by Newsweek. I'm Scott Webb. So, David it is so great to be on with you. Just to kind of set the scene for people, kind of define some terms. Maybe you could define what it means to be an LGBTQIA+ ally.
David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP (Guest): LGBTQIA+ is the acronym to support LGBTQIA+ individuals. And just a quick rundown of the letters, L is for lesbian, G is for gay, B is for bisexual, T is for transgender and or transsexual, depending on how someone identifies, a Q can be for queer or questioning, I is intersexed and A is asexual, but can also be considered an ally.
The plus sign indicates, anyone and everyone in between, across the gender spectrums and the sexuality spectrum, as well. And what it means to be an ally is to provide support to individuals who identify across the sexuality or gender spectrums, which include the acronym LGBTQIA+, and give them the opportunity to be seen as who they are.
For example, we've heard a lot about over the last several years, pronouns and the importance of pronouns and what that means is some people might identify as a pronoun, that's different than what they look like or what they present as. So, for example, someone could look male and actually identify with female pronouns. She, her, or she, they, and being able to ask someone what their pronouns are if you're not sure, is a way to help begin to see them.
Host: And I really appreciate you setting the scene there and kind of breaking everything down for us because, you know, I'm sure for a lot of people it's interesting right, because you see people using pronouns again, the pronouns may not match up with what they look like visually. And as you're indicating, it's okay to ask. Right? Yeah and David, for those who self-describe as non-binary, what challenges could they face while in treatment? And maybe you can highlight a particular story.
David: For individuals who identify as non-binary, those are people who do not identify with either male or female pronouns. And so they're ones who feel like their gender is somewhere between male and female. And may not take ownership of either one or perhaps sometimes they may take ownership of one and then another time another. So, that's why it's called a spectrum. But challenges that they have been facing in treatment, or at least that I've seen here is the idea of being seen as who they are kind of, as I said before, about the importance of pronouns. We actually, in all of our process group have residents check in with their pronouns as part of the group process so that people can be seen and feel safe.
And one of the things that comes up is sometimes somebody might not know what that means. And they'll ask that question. Well, what does that mean? And, recently there had been an individual in one process group that I sat in who said, well, I identify with male pronouns. And so I had asked the person, what are those male pronouns? Can you help us out with that? And so being able to help educate is a big part of this. And I think that's going to be the best example of letting people who have binary gender such as male and female, and even people who are hetero normative, we provide psycho-education to them about the importance of pronouns providing safety.
Host: And on the clinician side, are there some best practices for clinicians to follow?
David: Of course. And so one of the best ways to do that, kind of, as I discussed just a little bit ago, it is super important to talk about pronouns in group and be able to have it as part of a check-in process. That way someone can be able to share who they are automatically as part of a group process, instead of having to be asked, which could put them in an uncomfortable position. And so we do allow our residents to self identify and we never force anything, but to be able to give them that space, it could create the safe space for them to share on their own.
Host: Yeah. And as we know how important that is in treatment, that safe space. And when we talk about the climate or the spaces that we create for patients and clients, how important is providing trauma informed care to non-binary clients?
David: Trauma informed care, kind of to circle back to the question just before at about best clinician practices, is really about seeing them as who they say they are. I know historically, and when I first became a therapist, some of the talk that I had heard people saying professionals back during that time, I'd hear them say things like, oh, well their mental illness is because of their sexuality or they're gay and so this is why this is happening to them. And so it really came from a place of, in my opinion, ignorance and misunderstanding about different illnesses and how they relate to, to LGBTQIA+ individuals, they are not synonymous. And being able to have that view to see that they're separate from their illness, their sexuality, their gender is separate from their illness; that is trauma informed care.
Host: We wonder, you know, we as family members, coworkers, friends, what can we do, David? Or what should we not do to, you know, be a better ally.
David: Sure. I mean, providing an open space and connection for honesty and for letting someone be able to trust you with anything and including being able to share with them, if it's indeed true, that you're an open person who would be able to support loved ones. And I don't mean this just for LGBTQIA+ individuals, but for anyone in your family or friends, then I think what it means to be a good friend is to be able to be supportive and open to others.
And I think that's a big part of that. And so one of the things I would say to not do is to tell someone that they don't know what they're feeling and that they're wrong about their gender or they're wrong about their sexuality. But being an ally to me means to just be there, be present and be a safe space for them to share with you whatever's going on for them.
Host: Yeah, that seems like great advice. And you know, as we've discussed here today, people want to be who they are. And the whole thing we're doing here at Sierra Tucson is really accepting people for who they are and providing that safe space for them. And David for people who just may not be familiar with the LGBTQIA+ community, what do you want them to know? Because we've talked about it. You know, this is really about education. So, this is your moment to shine, David, what do you want them to know?
David: Of course. Yeah. I can think of a lot of different things, but the main thing that came up just now, as you asked that question, the that I want to say first is that we are educators as LGBTQIA+ individuals. And so we are available for questions. There are some people who may not be open for questions, but a lot of it and growing up as an LGBTQIA+ person, myself, in east Texas in a small town, I knew what it was like for people to not be familiar with it. But throughout my years of growing into being a gay male, I was able to educate people on things they didn't understand and things they didn't know about it. And so what came off as initially hatred actually turned out to be ignorance and not knowing certain things. And so being able to, as an LGBTQIA+ person, educate people on what's going on for you, but if you're not identifying with that group or do not yet consider yourself as an ally, then ask questions, be able to support someone. I mean, I do know out there, there is hatred and so definitely don't provide hatred for people.
That's probably the biggest thing. And even if you feel like it's something you don't personally agree with, that would be something that's best kept to yourself because someone may be feeling unsafe and may be thinking about harming themselves if they hear something hateful about their gender or their sexuality.
Host: As we wrap up, anything else you want folks to know about this conversation, about what they can do about how welcomed, you know, members of this community are at Sierra Tucson, all of those things.
David: Other than what I've already said, what I think is important for people to know is that we at Sierra Tucson, we are a supportive program for the LGBTQIA+ community. And we really have fashioned a program that is going to be able to help people across the sexuality and gender spectrums, set those pieces aside because we know they're not the primary problem and have them work on the main thing they came here for.
Host: Yeah, that sounds like a great plan. And David it's so great speaking with you. I know you're headed out on vacation, so have a great vacation, be safe, then stay well.
David: Thank you. And thank you for having me.
Host: Visit Sierra tucson.com or call 800-842-4487. Sierra Tucson, we work with most insurance and if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the full podcast library for additional topics of interest. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well.
Scott Webb (Host): We all need allies in life. And this is especially true for members of the LGBTQIA+ community. And I'm joined today by David Cato. He's a Clinical Director at Sierra Tucson and he, and many others there are working to educate, foster alliances and mostly to create safe spaces where members of this community can feel safe to be themselves.
This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. Sierra Tucson ranked number one best addiction treatment centers, 2020 in Arizona by Newsweek. I'm Scott Webb. So, David it is so great to be on with you. Just to kind of set the scene for people, kind of define some terms. Maybe you could define what it means to be an LGBTQIA+ ally.
David Cato, LCSW, TCT, SEP (Guest): LGBTQIA+ is the acronym to support LGBTQIA+ individuals. And just a quick rundown of the letters, L is for lesbian, G is for gay, B is for bisexual, T is for transgender and or transsexual, depending on how someone identifies, a Q can be for queer or questioning, I is intersexed and A is asexual, but can also be considered an ally.
The plus sign indicates, anyone and everyone in between, across the gender spectrums and the sexuality spectrum, as well. And what it means to be an ally is to provide support to individuals who identify across the sexuality or gender spectrums, which include the acronym LGBTQIA+, and give them the opportunity to be seen as who they are.
For example, we've heard a lot about over the last several years, pronouns and the importance of pronouns and what that means is some people might identify as a pronoun, that's different than what they look like or what they present as. So, for example, someone could look male and actually identify with female pronouns. She, her, or she, they, and being able to ask someone what their pronouns are if you're not sure, is a way to help begin to see them.
Host: And I really appreciate you setting the scene there and kind of breaking everything down for us because, you know, I'm sure for a lot of people it's interesting right, because you see people using pronouns again, the pronouns may not match up with what they look like visually. And as you're indicating, it's okay to ask. Right? Yeah and David, for those who self-describe as non-binary, what challenges could they face while in treatment? And maybe you can highlight a particular story.
David: For individuals who identify as non-binary, those are people who do not identify with either male or female pronouns. And so they're ones who feel like their gender is somewhere between male and female. And may not take ownership of either one or perhaps sometimes they may take ownership of one and then another time another. So, that's why it's called a spectrum. But challenges that they have been facing in treatment, or at least that I've seen here is the idea of being seen as who they are kind of, as I said before, about the importance of pronouns. We actually, in all of our process group have residents check in with their pronouns as part of the group process so that people can be seen and feel safe.
And one of the things that comes up is sometimes somebody might not know what that means. And they'll ask that question. Well, what does that mean? And, recently there had been an individual in one process group that I sat in who said, well, I identify with male pronouns. And so I had asked the person, what are those male pronouns? Can you help us out with that? And so being able to help educate is a big part of this. And I think that's going to be the best example of letting people who have binary gender such as male and female, and even people who are hetero normative, we provide psycho-education to them about the importance of pronouns providing safety.
Host: And on the clinician side, are there some best practices for clinicians to follow?
David: Of course. And so one of the best ways to do that, kind of, as I discussed just a little bit ago, it is super important to talk about pronouns in group and be able to have it as part of a check-in process. That way someone can be able to share who they are automatically as part of a group process, instead of having to be asked, which could put them in an uncomfortable position. And so we do allow our residents to self identify and we never force anything, but to be able to give them that space, it could create the safe space for them to share on their own.
Host: Yeah. And as we know how important that is in treatment, that safe space. And when we talk about the climate or the spaces that we create for patients and clients, how important is providing trauma informed care to non-binary clients?
David: Trauma informed care, kind of to circle back to the question just before at about best clinician practices, is really about seeing them as who they say they are. I know historically, and when I first became a therapist, some of the talk that I had heard people saying professionals back during that time, I'd hear them say things like, oh, well their mental illness is because of their sexuality or they're gay and so this is why this is happening to them. And so it really came from a place of, in my opinion, ignorance and misunderstanding about different illnesses and how they relate to, to LGBTQIA+ individuals, they are not synonymous. And being able to have that view to see that they're separate from their illness, their sexuality, their gender is separate from their illness; that is trauma informed care.
Host: We wonder, you know, we as family members, coworkers, friends, what can we do, David? Or what should we not do to, you know, be a better ally.
David: Sure. I mean, providing an open space and connection for honesty and for letting someone be able to trust you with anything and including being able to share with them, if it's indeed true, that you're an open person who would be able to support loved ones. And I don't mean this just for LGBTQIA+ individuals, but for anyone in your family or friends, then I think what it means to be a good friend is to be able to be supportive and open to others.
And I think that's a big part of that. And so one of the things I would say to not do is to tell someone that they don't know what they're feeling and that they're wrong about their gender or they're wrong about their sexuality. But being an ally to me means to just be there, be present and be a safe space for them to share with you whatever's going on for them.
Host: Yeah, that seems like great advice. And you know, as we've discussed here today, people want to be who they are. And the whole thing we're doing here at Sierra Tucson is really accepting people for who they are and providing that safe space for them. And David for people who just may not be familiar with the LGBTQIA+ community, what do you want them to know? Because we've talked about it. You know, this is really about education. So, this is your moment to shine, David, what do you want them to know?
David: Of course. Yeah. I can think of a lot of different things, but the main thing that came up just now, as you asked that question, the that I want to say first is that we are educators as LGBTQIA+ individuals. And so we are available for questions. There are some people who may not be open for questions, but a lot of it and growing up as an LGBTQIA+ person, myself, in east Texas in a small town, I knew what it was like for people to not be familiar with it. But throughout my years of growing into being a gay male, I was able to educate people on things they didn't understand and things they didn't know about it. And so what came off as initially hatred actually turned out to be ignorance and not knowing certain things. And so being able to, as an LGBTQIA+ person, educate people on what's going on for you, but if you're not identifying with that group or do not yet consider yourself as an ally, then ask questions, be able to support someone. I mean, I do know out there, there is hatred and so definitely don't provide hatred for people.
That's probably the biggest thing. And even if you feel like it's something you don't personally agree with, that would be something that's best kept to yourself because someone may be feeling unsafe and may be thinking about harming themselves if they hear something hateful about their gender or their sexuality.
Host: As we wrap up, anything else you want folks to know about this conversation, about what they can do about how welcomed, you know, members of this community are at Sierra Tucson, all of those things.
David: Other than what I've already said, what I think is important for people to know is that we at Sierra Tucson, we are a supportive program for the LGBTQIA+ community. And we really have fashioned a program that is going to be able to help people across the sexuality and gender spectrums, set those pieces aside because we know they're not the primary problem and have them work on the main thing they came here for.
Host: Yeah, that sounds like a great plan. And David it's so great speaking with you. I know you're headed out on vacation, so have a great vacation, be safe, then stay well.
David: Thank you. And thank you for having me.
Host: Visit Sierra tucson.com or call 800-842-4487. Sierra Tucson, we work with most insurance and if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the full podcast library for additional topics of interest. This is Let's Talk Mind, Body, Spirit by Sierra Tucson. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well.