Ngozi Ezike, MD (Host): Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Ngozi Ezike. And thank you for tuning in to More Than Medicine. This podcast is about the fight for health equity and justice. How we need to work to not just heal wounds, but truly address the root causes of hurt and distress in our communities and our nation.

This episode, I am so excited to be joined by Ms. Barbara Bates, a native of Chicago, a renowned fashion designer and founder of the Barbara Bates Foundation. Barbara is no stranger to Sinai. Barbara has worked closely with Sinai Chicago, advocating for women in the community to go and get their annual mammograms and cancer screenings. In 2021, with the help of Barbara and her foundation, the Barbara Bates Imaging Center was unveiled at Mount Sinai Hospital. Miss Barbara, thank you so much for joining us today.

Barbara Bates: It is my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm honored.

Host: Of course, of course. So, I often like to start by just inviting our guests to tell listeners a little bit about themselves and how they got started in their career. Could you start off with that?

Barbara Bates: Yeah, sure. I grew up on the west side of Chicago, not really far from Sinai at all. And I was always interested in fashion. In my day, Barbie dolls were the big thing, and Barbie dolls had like packages of clothes that you could buy too. So, I really just loved the clothes more so than the dolls.

So, I always knew that I wanted to be involved in fashion some sort of way. I thought it would be working at a really cool boutique. I never thought that I would be doing exactly what I wanted to do, because I wasn't taking the steps, you know, to go to school, to learn fashion design, sewing, all that. I didn't have that kind of tenacity to do that. I just thought I'd just like to like shop for clothes for clients and have them in a boutique. And so, that was like what I aspired to do. It didn't work out that way. It worked out actually exactly the way that I wanted it to. And it was pretty much like happenstance, I didn't really plan it.

But all through high school, you know, I would wear my own designs. And I'm one of the best dressed senior in my senior class. Then as I started working in corporate America, I would wear my clothes to work and people would ask where I got them from. I would say I designed them. Then, I started selling clothes to friends at work, meeting them in the restrooms, the bathrooms at break time, bringing the stuff back for them to purchase on the 15th and 31st, those wonderful paydays in corporate America.

Then, I had the opportunity to start my own business. And so, I'm just like kind of flying by the seat of my pants. It just started with the clients that I had, the friends that I knew, and it was word of mouth. We didn't have social media, you know, in 1986. It was pretty much, if you were doing something and somebody appreciated it, they liked it and they told other people. I was the original influencer, you know, back in those days that got people excited about the custom things that I was doing. That's really how I got started. I mean, I hate to say it when I'm at a college or a high school speaking, that I didn't go that route. And sometimes I'll even say, "Education is not for everybody. It'll stifle your creativity." And I don't mean it like that. I just mean sometimes you could just follow your path and you could do the grassroots way. And for me, it worked for me.

Host: That's fantastic. What an incredible story, the OG influencer who got her name out there without social media, just a very organic process. Congratulations on all of your success and really carving out your own path. So, I know you're from the area. So, how did you actually become involved with Sinai?

Barbara Bates: That was also a this-just-happened-to-happen. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009 and my pastor is a physician at Northwestern Hospital. And he took me by the hand and got me over to the hospital to see what was going on, where I was at with it. And for me, it was just a huge surprise because I had no information about breast cancer really. My education was women with big breasts got breast cancer; white women got breast cancer or, if you've had cancer in your family, then you're prone to breast cancer. So, I was not getting regular mammograms. I had probably only had one or two mammograms in my lifetime at the age of 52. So, I was like shocked to hear -- I felt the lump, I went to the doctor -- when they said you have breast cancer.

After my year-and-a-half-long treatment because I just thought breast cancer is so prevalent and nobody talks about it. And at this point, Robin Roberts had just come out with her story. So, I was just a few months behind her. And I just thought, it's just like so prevalent, but people don't know cause they don't have the right information. I consider myself intelligent, but I really wasn't doing the right thing. And even when people like friends of mine heard from social media, like models I use, they would come to me and say, "Oh, I'm a three-year survivor" or somebody would come, "Oh, my aunt had it." So many people were coming and telling me that they had it, I thought this is really prevalent, but nobody talks about it, like how come they don't? So, I decided to have a fashion show just to bring about awareness. And for the fashion show, I wanted to use all models who were breast cancer survivors.

So, my treatment was at Northwestern. My doctor at that time over at Northwestern set it up for me to use one of their huge conference spaces to give the fashion show. And I gave my first fashion show. They are probably in like 2011 with all the models being breast cancer survivors. And the money that we raised, which was for me, the most money I had ever raised for one event was like a $50,000 check. And, you know, as I was about to hand that check over to Northwestern, I thought to myself, "You guys have a whole lot of money. This probably means nothing to you." And so, I think it should go to an inner city hospital.

And I actually lived across the street from Sinai, like on the other side of the park. When you live in a neighborhood and there is the neighborhood hospital there, you don't take them seriously, or I didn't. I won't speak for other people, I'm going to say how I felt. Sinai was the hospital that I rode past. And I was like, "If I ever get sick, keep taking me right on downtown." I don't want to come over here to the hospital because it was the hospital that you heard about everybody. "So and so came there with 15 gunshots and he died." "So and so went there with his hand cut off and he died." It was a hospital that you heard about bad things. So, it was like, that's not the hospital that I want to be at. I want to go to one of the muckety-muck downtown hospitals.

And so, when I was actually asked by someone to come over to Sinai to just see what we're about, that was my introduction. There was someone who worked there. It was Debra Wesley. They invited me to come to Sinai. I sat in on just some incredible meetings. They gave statistics about what the hospital was about. And I just happened to even learn that the hospital once served a really influential community. And when that community left and it changed and it became an impoverished area, the Sinai decided to stay and keep their doors open. And I heard about the work that they were doing. And I just thought that that's the hospital that I want to pick. That's the hospital that's serving my community. That's the hospital that's serving me. So, for me, it was a really eye-opening experience. That was my involvement with Sinai. That's actually how I became involved with them in that first 50,000 that I raised. I decided Northwestern couldn't have it, that it would go to Sinai to a program that was called Helping Her Live and that's where the money went.

Host: That's an incredibly powerful story. I mean, first of all, you touched on many of the myths that are out there. There were myths out there regarding who gets breast cancer, not understanding that it's actually the most common cancer in the world, that one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime. So being able to raise awareness with $50,000, that was a lot of money in 2011. That's a lot of money now. It's such a big gift and what it was working towards is really something that results in saving lives by increasing that awareness.

And I also am glad that you were also able to debunk the myths about who Sinai is or was. You know, we are world-renowned, nationally renowned for saving lives and dealing with these very intense traumas. But, you know, we're more than just trauma and the incredible work that we can do around breast cancer and breast screening, you are helping make that possible. So, thank you so much for the myths that you were able to debunk and this incredible seed money that you started off giving to us and that you've been continuing to share your talent through your fashion with us.

Barbara Bates: Thank you. Thank you. So, the continuation actually kind of came by my arms getting twisted behind my back. After the first 50,000 was given, then the president at the hospital at that time contacted me. I guess he thought that I was a true fundraiser, which I am not. That's not what I do at all. And he came to me with this offer, so to speak, that, you know, "Thank you for the money that you've given us. If you could see to raise a half a million dollars in five years, we would happily name something after you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." So, I was like, "No, thanks. A half a million dollars, I don't even know what that is. I have no idea." I just couldn't do that and I wouldn't want that sitting on my plate.

And he courted me for you know a month or so calling asking, "Have you made up your mind? Have you made up your mind?" But I just didn't think that was something that was doable. Then, I got a phone call from him that said, "I have a donor who was willing to donate half of that 500 in the way of 250 if you would say yes to this." And so, I thought, "Wow, that puts me halfway there. And in five years, I'm sure I could probably raise 250." So, you know, long story short, I ended up saying yes to that. We ended up raising probably twice that amount through grassroots, fundraisers, the walk, fashion shows, selling candy, working in restaurants as waitresses, getting tip money. It was all very grassroots. I don't think any big checks came our way. I think McDonald's may have given us, to me, what was a big check, like a $5,000 check one year, $5,000 the next year. But it was really community. It was just all like small seed money that grew into bigger seed money. The fashion shows definitely did well and the walk did well. And I saw that other people were really interested in it, so I did it for a few years until it was like paying off a bill, like, "I've got to get this bill paid off so they can leave me alone."

In between that time, there were so many relationships that were made, people start saying that, "Oh, da-da-da-da-da Barber Bates" and then the word "philanthropy," which just came from nowhere for me, because that was not really my intention. I'm like really floored by what happened and all the people that came to my aid, but I didn't have a plan, you know, a five-year plan because that's just not who I am. I don't operate that way.

Host: Well, that's phenomenal. I actually did not know that whole story. So, I'm kind of floored by this story about how the project came about. And lo and behold, in November of 2021, the Barbara Bates Imaging Center opened up. And it is newly renovated, it's beautiful, it's serene. It offers 3D mammography and oncology services. And, you know, I got my mammogram there this summer and I just was seeing your name on the wall. Of course, I've met you many times and was smiling. And the other women were like, "You're smiling so much." You know and I said, "I have a lot of reasons to smile." But I was definitely seeing your name on the wall, and thinking about how I didn't know all these details. But now, it's even more special. So, thank you so much for that labor of love, even if it was grudgingly to start, but it happened. And it's a tremendous investment into the community.

Barbara Bates: Thank you. Yeah, it did happen. And then, I still have to pinch myself about it. I don't know where I go from here, you know? You guys have a job for me over there. I'd love to retire from here at some point and come work at the hospital.

Host: We've got you. That's not an issue. If you want to work here, I've got something for you tomorrow, just let me know. Just let me know. So, what would you say in terms of what was lacking in the community surrounding Sinai that really made you think that women's health and specifically cancer treatment, that those services needed this kind of support that you've been able to offer?

Barbara Bates: there's a huge need that's there. And just a small person like me, there's not a lot I could do, but I have a platform, a voice that resonates in the community. So if it has to be through fashion, then I use fashion to get out the word that once I've got your attention, "Okay, here's something else that you may want to connect yourself with." And it's being aware that breast cancer is so prevalent and that it really affects women of color. So, I just felt that I had no idea before until I got those facts. Once I got involved and I got those facts, I was just in awe. It's like, "Oh, you're not as intelligent as you thought you were because you didn't have this information, and it's crucial information."

Host: Yeah. It is very important. I mean, we have to make sure that the community knows that black women actually do have the highest death rate from breast cancer. And it's because of often late identification. And so, that's why the awareness of the need for screening and being able to make that available is an important piece of really uplifting health equity. We know that breast cancer is also one of the most curable types of cancer. So really, if we can get people screened and get them screened regularly so we find any cancers early, people have a much better chance of having a less complicated course and having survival. And you as a survivor can tell the story of that it is not a death sentence. And so, I know that you share, I'm sure, your story regularly.

Barbara Bates: I think that a lot of women too, just believe it or not, they're just afraid. Some people are like afraid to know and they'll say, "Oh, I'm just really afraid to know." And I'm like, "Your fear needs to be what nine months of chemo looks like and a year of radiation and just, you know, the whole thing, that's what your fear needs to be." Not going in to have your breasts checked and then, you know, that you've come to us too late. That's the fear. That's the fear that you need to have. And so, it's just really important just to just take that little fear away of going and getting a mammogram. Like, you know, it doesn't hurt like having a baby. You know, it's over with like really quick. And that fear, believe it or not, stops a lot of women just from going. There's just, you know, a bad education about the fear.

Host: You know, I've never heard that tagline, like, you know, how to encourage people to have a mammogram. It doesn't hurt as much as having a baby, but having had both mammograms and babies, that is true. That is true. So, I'm sure that you've heard and collected some stories of people coming to the Barbara Bates Imaging Center. Any specific patient stories that you can share of people utilizing the imaging center named after you?

Barbara Bates: The stories that I got were, you know, "Hey, Barbara, I know that your name is over at the imaging center of Sinai. I got a situation going on and can you get me in? I could definitely pay for it. But I can't get in at my hospital or my doctor's office until X amount of time." So, to hear that, not from one person, but from several people, I thought there's a huge need just for sinners to be out here if they're doing nothing but mammograms, you know, just a sinner that all you do is you're going to get mammograms.

So, really, I felt like really special that I was able to make a phone call and just say, "I promise I won't do this all the time, but I got some close friends that need this to happen." And I did it a couple of times and you guys definitely opened up your doors to make that happen, to get people in early. And on both of them, they got in so quick, I mean, like a week's time, longer than two. And they're both really doing well. And that story is amazing to hear.

And then aside from that, friends who do have insurance and who just had regular appointments, they're there to get their mammogram and they sent me a picture of myself on the wall with just like a little heart or something next to it. It just, you know, brings you back. It brings like a wonderful warm feeling to me because I do remember the feeling of a year and a half of just being in turmoil. Someone who'd never had a toothache before and then I was turned around to having to go to the doctor every day for like a year and a half and going through the kind of treatment that I went through. So, it's just the fact that, "Wow, Barbara, your name is on something, that you went through it. And look how you came back on the other end of it." And so, sometimes God puts us in situations that we have no idea, and I never saw that coming. In a million years, if I die and come back three times, I'd never know that after you finish breast cancer, you're going to advocate and guess what? You'll have a center with your name on it.

Host: It's actually not that surprising because a lot of the things that you have done, you didn't exactly know that they were going to happen. But somehow, the path that you have just followed, just kind of doing what you do has ended up in wonderful places. So, I'm glad that you leaned into this great opportunity and you are actually saving lives with this imaging center because we know that with screening gives the chance to identify and really save lives. You have made a tremendous difference in the lives of people that you won't even start to know, many of them. But that gift that you've given to us here at Sinai to be able to care for people is a gift that keeps on giving. So, we are completely, completely indebted to you.

So, as you continue to think about how you will innovate and continue to be a blessing just as others are trying to thank you and bless you back, what would you say to anyone with cancer, given that you are a cancer survivor? What's a message that you would like to leave with people who are actively in the struggle against breast cancer now?

Barbara Bates: And I'm actually, I'm dealing with a very close friend right now who has a form of cancer, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. And when you start talking about cancer, it just comes from like all different places. But I just like to tell people that the medicine, that the treatments that they have out today, I'm a 13-year survivor, so they're far more advanced today than they were then. And the medicine is definitely like super, super important, but it's your frame of mind. It's where you are when you're going through your treatments. A lot of people have a great support system, but it's got to come from you.

You got to just like really-- I'm not saying you have to be uplifted or upbeat-- but you just have to have a good attitude. You just have to like dig down deep. You know, I want the doctors to say "There's a wonderful chance this is not terminal. You're going to live." You want to keep saying I'm going to live because it is not a death sentence. The doctors, they know what they're talking about, but I promise you it has so much to do with just where your mindset is. Like you can't just stop living and you can't put yourself down in the dumps no matter what it seems like. And these aren't just like words that I'm throwing out or a cliché. I lived it so I know. I know that it's so important that your mindset has to be good. I would leave chemo and I would come to work, and I don't say it to get people like worked up, you know, about, "Oh, wow, you did that." I would come to work and if I were tired, I would go in my back room, put fabric on the floor, and I would just lay down. But I wanted to keep going because I didn't want to stop. I can think of two days that I came to work and I didn't feel good and I went home. But other than that, there were so many people that were giving me support. And just myself, I just wanted to keep going. I wasn't ready to stop. And so, mindset and medicine together, that's like 100%.

Host: That's a great lesson. It's not just about the medicines or just about your external support group. You also have to support yourself and you got to claim that wellness and be in that right frame of mind. Keep on keeping on. Those are great words of advice and a great way to end an incredible conversation with an incredible woman.

I have to thank you so much, Ms. Barbara, for sharing your story with all of us and for everything that you're doing and that you're continuing to do in supporting Sinai Chicago, supporting our patients, supporting our community. The Barbara Bates Imaging Center is truly a remarkable space. It provides state-of-the-art mammograms and breast imaging services. I am so excited for our continued collaboration in promoting breast cancer awareness and our shared mission of making sure that all women can get the care that they truly need. Thank you so much for this time.

Barbara Bates: Thank you. And if I could just say one thing, it's a statistic that I know about, but the community may not know about, and it shocked me to my core. I'll read a couple of sentences verbatim, but I just think it's so important. And it says that fewer than 10 percent of Sinai's 100,000 annual patients are privately insured. Last year, Sinai provided more than $50 million in charitable care for those who could not afford to pay, making Sinai Chicago one of the largest providers of uncompensated care in the United States. That is unbelievable. It sent chills up my spine.

Host: Thank you. And it's because of your kind of support that we can do that. So, thank you. Thank you for highlighting that. Yes, we definitely won't close our doors to anyone. And it is so important that we don't so that we can make sure that the care that everybody needs to live and survive and thrive is available. So, thank you for being a partner in that and take care.

Barbara Bates: Thank you.

Scott outro: Thank you for listening to More Than Medicine with Dr. Ngozi Ezike. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Sinai Chicago's YouTube channel, as well as follow @SinaiChicago on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram for information on upcoming podcasts. Until next time.