Dr. Bob Underwood: At its core, travel is more than just moving from one place to another. It is a journey of self-discovery. It's a conduit for cultural exchange and it's a catalyst for personal growth. You know, that's whether you're traveling to distant lands or exploring hidden gems here in the Four Corners, right in our own backyard.

Travel offers a wealth of benefits and it extends far beyond mere sightseeing. I'm Dr. Bob Underwood, the Chief Medical Officer here at San Juan Regional, and on the Compass Podcast today, I'm bringing along my wife, Gina. And we're going to talk about the impact travel has had on our lives and how we've learned to accommodate some for my disability, but more importantly, just to talk about the connection and the enlightenment and the importance that it's had on our lives.

So we're both here because we love traveling, right?

Gina: We do.

Dr. Bob Underwood: You do love traveling. So what do you remember about our first trip?

Gina: Lots of things. Just meeting you for the first time or for several times, one of the first questions you asked me is, do you have a passport?

Dr. Bob Underwood: Do you have a passport?

Gina: I do now.

Dr. Bob Underwood: It's true. I did. That's true. And what was our first trip?

Gina: So in terms of first trip or international trip?

Dr. Bob Underwood: Good question, because we made a couple of stateside before we went international. Let's say international.

Gina: So, first international trip, we flew into London, spent a couple days, and then we ventured on to Paris.

Dr. Bob Underwood: I had a business, I actually went to a medical conference in London, and then we took the Eurostar, the tunnel train, over. Yeah. So what do you remember about it?

Gina: That was my first time traveling internationally, so of course the time change, big adjustment. He encouraged me to try to stay awake as long as we could the day of arrival, so we did the big bus tour.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Yeah.

Gina: Still a little difficult trying to keep my eyes open, but once that adjustment was made, we did a lot throughout London. It was close to Thanksgiving, but they already had Christmas markets set up. So we did explore some of the Christmas markets, which was fun.

Dr. Bob Underwood: So what's your favorite place we've been?

Gina: Internationally, I mean, I love the water, love the coast. So we've been to Croatia. We've also been to the Caribbean and Hawaii. So some of those definitely are on the top of my list.

Dr. Bob Underwood: No, I think those are pretty high on my list too. So what would you say about planning a trip and keeping in mind that I have multiple sclerosis and we often have to kind of adjust what we do. So, what do you think when you talk about planning a trip?

Gina: Well, just like you mentioned there's a lot of things we have to consider. So leaving the planning to someone else really is not as convenient for that reason. I do feel like it can be overwhelming at times, but once you start digging in, it really does give you a lot of freedom to pick and choose what you would like to do that's best for your itinerary.

It also supports your ability in getting around. So I definitely feel like the planning phase for us has been great. I think we did a really good job at that. What do you think?

Dr. Bob Underwood: I agree a hundred percent. And you and I have never done one of these pre packaged tours anyway. It's partly what we like to do, what we like to see, and the planning has become part of the fun. That's one of the things that we enjoy doing. It starts to build the anticipation. You know, sometimes, what, six, eight months ahead of time, we're already looking at the stuff we're going to be doing.

Gina: Yeah, and I also feel like it just helps you to become more knowledgeable about where you're going. If you're actually having to dig into the details in terms of transportation, accommodations, attractions, I mean, you're learning so much about that particular location in that process, which I think makes the trip even more fun, because, you really go into it being informed.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Yeah, it's what are the things we want to see when we're there. Stuff I didn't even know existed in this town. But as we research it, and let's face it, we watch a number of YouTube channels sometimes before we go somewhere to now. So, what accommodations do we make for my MS?

Gina: Well, I personally feel like because we do the deep dive on our own, It really gives us the opportunity to look at distance between attractions, transportation between attractions, or even accommodations, airports, train stations. I mean, all of those things do matter when it comes to making sure that we're not stretching you farther than you can be stretched in terms of what you're capable of.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Yeah, and it's all about mobility. You mentioned it earlier as we were talking and we really normally stay pretty close to a train station. When we were in Europe, we were at the St. Pancras station and at the Edinburgh station this last trip, we were in hotels right across from the train station, so less of a walk for me to go. And, you know, it's really about my mobility. That's my disability, but other people might have a different disability that they need to account for.

Gina: Agreed. And I think, you know, because we dig into the details on our own, we can figure those things out firsthand. We quickly learn, I mean, most countries do have Uber services, but for example, Hungary does not. We didn't realize that until we got there. That was one of those kind of assumptions that we made and we had to make other arrangements through taxis, which were available, but you know, we weren't expecting that.

Dr. Bob Underwood: How is travel therapeutic? I mean, the podcast, the Compass podcast is really about building interest in things and building our own resilience. So how does travel meet that need for you?

Gina: I think first and foremost, we travel together. It's quality time, which means everything to me. In addition to that, it's everything you're learning along the way. We gather so much information that we didn't know beforehand, and I think that's just, I don't know, a great way to dig in and actually explore an area is doing it firsthand.

That's therapeutic to me. It's also like once you start the planning phase and you actually see it come to fruition, it's like, wow, we did this and look what we just did. Wasn't that fantastic? So that's therapeutic.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Yep. I definitely think that that's true and traveling together is really a big deal. You got to be able to cooperate when you travel together because things are going to go wrong. I mean, that's just part of travel. It teaches you patience. It teaches you how to accommodate for things that you didn't expect. And so you got to get along with the person who you travel with. You have to have good travel companions. And we've traveled with our kids and all of them, I think traveled really, really well.

So how do you think it's therapeutic for me with MS and I can postulate a little bit that part of it makes me stress my capability or stretch it a little bit I think.

Gina: But I also feel like it's really good for you because not only may it stretch your ability but it allows you to feel and see that you can still go out and do things and even if it's on a smaller scale sometimes it still allows you to get out and explore, go places you've never been, see things you've never seen and I think that's super important.

Dr. Bob Underwood: I'll agree. So, we talked a lot about overseas, but it doesn't have to be out of the country or even out of the state.

Gina: Yeah, since we've moved out to the mountain states, I mean, we've done a lot of exploring and, the great thing is so many things are in drivable distance. We've done a lot of things.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Yeah, we have been to Las Vegas a couple of times for conferences and just for trips. And also Phoenix.

Gina: Salt Lake City.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Salt Lake City. So there's lots of places to explore around here, I think. So, what's next on your agenda?

Gina: Well, we did decide a couple years ago, we have traveled several times with as many children as we can, but they are now young adults, they're starting their own lives. So we thought it would be great to let them pick a place that they might want to go and we actually take a trip each year with them individually. So last year my daughter graduated from college, so we did a trip to celebrate that. Of course, this past New Year's Eve.

Dr. Bob Underwood: Right, we took a trip with our granddaughter, so she is a big Moana fan, so that was a a quick trip to Hawaii. And then, my other daughter, is not fluent, but speaks Japanese and actually studied anthropology with the Asian culture. And so we do have, in a year, it's a long way off and we're planning it and starting to save for it. In a year, the intent is to go to Japan. Then, you know, there'll be trips up into Colorado as well in the interim.

If you were to give advice to someone who really hasn't traveled before, and since we've been doing it for a while, what advice would you give?

Gina: Well, I can speak personally. Before we met and actually started doing the traveling that we do, I was a little intimidated by the travel and learning something new, a culture, a language, whatever it may be, but I really encourage people to stretch themselves a little. Take the opportunity. There's nothing like it. Just put yourself out there and it's a beautiful world. There's so much to see and it does not have to be internationally. You could easily go and cross the state border into Colorado and create your own trip for a long weekend and it can be just as enriching as getting on an airplane. It can be very simple. It can be complicated. You pick that, but I'd strongly encourage you to get out there. It's so many beautiful things to see.

Dr. Bob Underwood: I agree. And my advice for anybody with a disability, is to make consideration for that and look at the things that you think you're capable of doing.

I have, in fact, a YouTube channel that is called 2 Long Blocks, and it's specifically for people with disabilities who travel. And it's 2, as in the number 2 long blocks, and that actually comes from a trip that we took. We had friends who worked for the State Department in Poland, and every time we would go somewhere, we'd say, how far is it?

And the answer was always, well, it's 2 long blocks. A lot of times it was farther than that, but that's where we developed the name for a travel channel. It really is dedicated to people who have to have some kind of mobility accommodation, steps or distance, or, getting in and out of trains.

And sometimes it's not an even platform and you got luggage and stuff to get through there. And so it's just good warning for folks. It's a fun thing to do. So, what have you found most rewarding out of all of it?

Gina: It's all rewarding. I mean, I think the whole process all together is rewarding.

Dr. Bob Underwood: So, we'll look forward to the next one. We're counting the airline miles now. Trying to book them up so we can go on our next trip.

Gina: And what do you say at the end of every one of your videos?

Dr. Bob Underwood: It's a beautiful world out there. Get out and explore it.

Gina: That's it.