Abby Fox (Intro): Welcome to the Still Caring Podcast, presented by Stillwater Medical.

Joe Akin (Intro): Here, community is at the heart of healthcare.

Katon Lunsford (Intro): Through honest conversations and shared experiences

Abby Fox (Intro): We explore what it means to care for our health—

Joe Akin (Intro): And each other.

Katon Lunsford (Intro): Because better health takes a village and you're part of ours.

Joe Akin (Host): Welcome, everyone. I'm Joe Aiken, and I'm glad you're part of this conversation. Today, I'm joined by Vance Hunter. Many of you know Vance through his career in oil and gas and his involvement supporting Oklahoma State Basketball. But today, we're talking about something deeply personal, his journey with prostate cancer and the many times that journey has brought him into the emergency department at Stillwater Medical.

This episode is the first of a two-part conversation. Today, we hear the story from the patient's perspective, from Vance's point-of-view. In our next episode, we'll sit down with his wife, Lori, to explore a perspective that's talked about far less often—the experience of the caregiver. So, Vance, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate taking the time to talk to us about your story.

Vance Hunter: Well, thanks for the invite.

Host: You bet. So if we would, let's go ahead and just start with your story. So, give listeners a snapshot of your path into oil and gas.

Vance Hunter: Well, I grew up in it, graduated in '85 from OSU with a degree in Petroleum. I moved overseas, worked for Schlumberger and Halliburton, both on an international basis. And I came home, was manager operations for a pipeline company, and then, oh, 30 years ago, wound up starting a business and became a contractor by accident. So now, we're an oil and gas pipeline construction company and do a little ranching on the side and OSU support on the other side.

Host: So, Oklahoma State has been a big part of your life. What has that connection meant to you?

Vance Hunter: Oklahoma State gave me an opportunity to, pursue opportunities—opportunities I didn't know that existed, turned dreams into realities. Just changed our lives, changed my direction. It's been a life-changer in my world.

Host: So, I think what you're talking about is the NIL fundraising for men's basketball aspect of what you do with OSU. But what is it that drives you to stay invested with the young athletes?

Vance Hunter: Well, it's the entire university. We're supporting the nursing school at the university. We support the hotel and restaurant management group. These athletics, we're some pretty heavy supporters with them. What I find with the student athletes, they put in a lot of time. Their work weeks are 60, 80 hours. They have to be very disciplined, they're away from home, very structured lifestyle. And I have an appreciation for the energy effort and dedication it takes for those guys and girls to be successful.

Host: So clearly, life was moving pretty fast for you. And then, unfortunately, cancer entered the picture. So, when did you first realize something was wrong?

Vance Hunter: First, in 2018, annual physical. I'd had a run in with a gallbladder, about lost that battle. But once we got through it, I made Lori promise that I'd go get an annual physical, which I kept. And everything was fine until it wasn't. Just an annual physical. There were no signs in anything. It just took a blood test. Next thing I know I'm at a urologist. Next thing I know he is talking about cancer.

Host: So, it's been a long journey and it's continuing, obviously. But what has it been like to deal with from an emotional perspective?

Vance Hunter: That's the tough one. You have no control. First time in my life I haven't had control. You're put in positions that you need to make decisions and you don't know the ramifications of those decisions. There's some organizations that tell you what they want to do to you. They don't necessarily tell you what is best for you. They don't tell you what's not best, they just give you the options and it is like I told one doctor, "I'm an engineer. I'm not a doctor. I don't know what's best for me." And thank goodness I had a doctor in Tulsa that offered advice. I still believe it was probably the best advice for me at the time. And that's the journey we chose.

Host: Your story's been different than a lot of other's that I've heard about. You've had to deal with all the things that anyone else dealing with prostate cancer has had to manage. But you've also had some very difficult complications. So if you would help listeners understand the nature of the emergency situations you've experienced.

Vance Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. So, with the cancer I have—the prostate cancer—there's no secret to that, again, there were no signs I had cancer. My prostate wasn't enlarged. My PSA was just a little bit over 5, I think it was. And next thing I know, I'm being told my Gleason scores are very high. I'm looking at stage IV. Then, it's the PET scans. The CT scans, the has-it-spread? And it took us several months to get to boundaries. We had no boundaries there. Once we hit a boundary, then there was, "Okay, now what do we do?" which led to the proton therapy at Mayo. Outstanding performance by them, I think. I mean, they stopped a very aggressive cancer. And it seemed like they just pushed this magic button and it was gone.

And for three years after, two years after, it was like I just went into a room, laid down, they did what they do, and everything's good. You're good to go. And as my PSA started increasing a little bit, Mayo got concerned. And we went back and they had found that the cancer was back. They couldn't find it. They thought they knew where it was, but they couldn't identify it totally. They did some scans, used some new technology, and then we came back here. And OSU Medical Center was able to confirm it with some of their research equipment, which was a big deal. So, we went on to some more treatments of maintaining it. Haven't beat it, but we've been fighting the battle.

One of the repercussions of the proton therapy was after a time, some patients—not all, I'm one of the unlucky ones—develop scar tissue in their bladder or near their prostate, and you start randomly bleeding internally. If the bleeds are minor, then you're able to pass the blood and move forward. No big deal. It'll usually stop. Sometimes though they're large bleeds, there's a lot of clotting, and then you're plugged up. And then, the next thing you know, you can't pass any urine. Your bladder's swelling from both urine and blood, and you're in trouble.

First time it happened, I didn't know what was happening. I wound up at St. Francis, which was a horrible experience. It took six hours to get seen. It took almost eight hours to get any action. Then, once they got me in, they did a great job. My doctor there did a great job. But that was a close call and I chose not to go back there. it happens randomly. Never know when it'll happen. I it could be happening right now and I not know it. Second time it happened, I just told Lori, "I'm going to Stillwater. I don't know anything. I'm going to go try it. What do I got to lose?"

Man, that was game-changer. Ten minutes, I'm from checked in to on a bed to doctors and nurses and things happening. I realize now that I wasn't necessarily lucky, it was just a random night where the emergency room wasn't covered up, because we all know that, after our journey together now at the ER —I guess we'll talk about that in a minute—but the fact that I got in so quick and they were doing what they needed to do. Dr. Rademaker was contacted, not my doctor. He's just in the Stillwater Systems, SMC systems, one of the urologists. Great man. He came over. We just moved forward quick. They moved forward real quick. It was a kind of a tough journey. I spent three days in the hospital. And I think it was three days, but he took good care of me, took great care of me.

Then, he found out that I had a urologist in Tulsa, and that led to an issue of—they didn't want to treat me because I had a urologist. My urologist is with St. Francis. So, with good luck, Rademaker and Dr. Hudson happened to know each other. So, Dr. Hudson transferred me back over to Stillwater to Dr. Rademaker. But the emergencies are because of the bladder filling and the pain that's associated with it. And then, the process, once you get in the ER, it's a pretty tough process. You've seen that. And the thing that the body does to try to remove those from my body, it's a journey.

Host: I won't even for a second pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone battling cancer. But I've always wondered, even after you've beaten cancer, so to speak, does that fear ever leave you?

Vance Hunter: Oh, no, no, I'm on the clock. I feel like I'm on the clock. I live in with the bleeding. I live in two-hour to four-hour increments. With the cancer, I live in 90-day to 60-day increments, depending on the blood work. The unknown is scary. The constant burden of knowing you're on the clock. Do you buy this? Do you invest in this? With the bleeding, I can't travel. I have to stay within about an hour of Stillwater now. So, you know, "You can't hold the family back. You can't hold Lori back." In my case, it's an everyday burden, mentally. And it's exhausting. It's exhausting. And I'm better off than a lot of people. You know, so, I'm lucky. I'm lucky in so many ways. But it's a burden not just on me, it's burden on everybody else. And like you say, I'm sure you guys will cover that.

Host: You kind of mentioned this, but your primary home's in Broken Arrow, but you've made a very intentional decision to stay close to Stillwater and you spend most of your time on your ranch just between Stillwater and Tulsa. And that's because even though you're cancer-free, you've beaten it, you still have the after effects that are seriously impacting your life. So, you still have clotting episodes that require the emergency room care. So, why—and this is kind of a obvious question—but why has it been important for you to stay close to Stillwater in particular?

Vance Hunter: Well, the Stillwater Medical Center is amazing. It's amazing as a patient, the doctors that are associated with the institution are amazing. The ER, I would consider—out of all the places I've been and all the ERs I've been in—it's the best ER I've ever been to. And I believe that's right. Why would I waste my time? When I can have the best right at home going somewhere else.

Now, I have tried heading over to our home in Eureka Springs. Stress is high. If I do that, I know if something happens, I'm going to be in a foreign hospital and it'll be starting over. But it'll be enough to get me home. I have traveled out to the Mayo, pretty stressful. You know, the ranch is my sanctuary. It's 35, 40 minutes from the ER. It's about an hour from the house at Broken Arrow, and I spend, oh, 90% of my time here because I just never know when I need to get on 412 and head into town.

Host: You kind of touched on this a minute ago, Vance, but how much does it matter that the ER team knows you and understands your situation?

Vance Hunter: In my specific case now—we don't have to talk about it—I'm in the system. They know when I come in, they know what the problem is. And I've visited the ER for other issues. But for the prostate and the problems, they're prepared and they've done a little extra training. So in my case, that training's, I understand, helping other people that are in my situation. They now have better supplies. They have some pretty unique training because my case got for a while pretty serious.

Dr. Rademaker and the urology department, I think they have stepped their game up in supporting the ER. Dr. Richardson in the ER running it. Unbelievable what they're doing in there with that staff. You know, the nurses, when you watch a nurse—which you watched—that's how we met face to face. You sit in there and watch one of the episodes for a few hours. It's amazing, but they're amazing on everything, and not just on me.

And what I find most in enlightening about our ER at Stillwater is everybody gets the same attention. They get the same effort. The staff is exceptional about taking a couple of three minutes to hear instead of just thinking they know. They're very proactive in the information gathering. And they've always listened to Lori when she's talked before they knew who we were.

So, what makes me, I think—I don't know how to say—most comforting thing for us is the fact that we know—not just us—but all patients coming through those doors are going to receive the same treatment. The concern I have is that staff is working above the design limits for the institution. And as you know, we're working hard to try to fix that.

Host: Yeah. So, one of the most powerful parts of your story is that you didn't just experience care. You and Lori chose to support it. So, how did the StillStrong Emergency Department Education Endowment come about?

Vance Hunter: Well, it came about in part of what we already talked about, was the first time I went in, they had to get Dr. Rademaker over there to help. There was not confusion, it was just what they understood in the emergency phase of the process was not handling my situation. Dr. Rademaker was there—now they were handling the emergency quite well, but we weren't making headway to solve the situation. Dr. Rademaker got involved, then it was quickly changed. The nurse that was helping me, she was over the top of me for, oh, it was in excess of six hours. She was exhausted and so was I. And she was even getting support. And one person in there was supposed to be going off the clock and chose to stay to help—integrity.

Well, as this thing went on, and the more times I visited and the more times people came in, I realized that the Stillwater Medical Center—and this was before I knew the statistics and how we were behind the game in many ways. We're surviving, we're meeting goals—and I'm talking like I'm part of it. Well, I guess I am now. I didn't understand all that. Then, when I realized, "Hey, we have to be successful." Our ER center in Stillwater has a huge area of coverage. I need it to be successful for me, that's selfish. But that's a fact. I need Stillwater Medical Center ER to be successful every time I walk through that door, but they need to be for everybody else.

Then, when I started hearing stories and started beating people and understanding the encroachment on our talent from other institutions, it almost became just like the NIL for college athletics. How do we obtain the talent? How do we retain the talent? And how do we educate our talent? And one of the things, through conversation with you and many of the nurses and some of the doctors was, if we could enhance training and education inside our facility with our existing staff, that would relieve and provide opportunity that might help retain. And it would also definitely help educate. So, that was the first one. Let's see what we can do. And that's what started the process, and the StillStrong.

Host: Right. So, endowment that you guys set up really is designed for recruitment and retention of the staff through education. And it's in play now. We are actively using it. But for you guys, why did you feel like investing in staff education particularly, why was that important to you guys?

Vance Hunter: Well, the building's meaningless. We can build the biggest hospital in the world right there if we don't staff it with quality people. And there's a shortage in the medical field—and there will be, because there's more of us gray-haired people running around now than there ever has been. And there's going to be more. You know, our population in Stillwater in a one week can grow by, what, 15,000 or 20,000. We're in a kind of a unique situation. A lot of colleges that are in big cities, they can divert that, workload. We can't. We're it. The hospital's it, SMCs it.

So if we can retain through training an opportunity, then we're keeping experience inside our units. The ER is the one we chose. The NIC unit's, another one out there, the new cancer center. There's people invested in that. That was just where we invested our efforts. Now, we also at the same time are investing in the education at OSU in the nursing program.

We've set up a deal over there that will help OSU nursing school, still working through some of the details because my hope is the money that's used from that will be used to help potential ER nurses coming into SMC. Because with the expansion that will have to take place—it's not if, it's when—we will have to have people coming in, and we need youth into emergency services. Fact. That's just fact.

Host: Yeah. Agreed. So, going back to you, how has cancer changed how you think about time? Well, I guess, it's more how has it changed how you think about life?

Vance Hunter: Ooh, that's a big one. That's a big one. Time. Time is finite. I saw a drawing once of a ladder going up into clouds, into heaven. And there was a line, no names, just a line. When you don't have a terminal illness, that time function isn't necessarily at the forefront. When you do, time becomes very important. Quality time, productivity time. The nonsense meter goes to zero. I have no time for wasting on nonsense. I just don't. Even with situation with people, I almost have to watch myself sometimes because I don't want to be impatient. But I just feel like I don't have time to waste on noise.

You know, in my world, I've found that any decision I make today, I won't know if it's a good decision till five years. Business, financial, investment, whatever. Well, I don't know if I have five years Now, in reality, nobody knows if they have five years. But I've got this little bug inside me that's chewing away. So, I don't have time not to make decisions. I have to make those, whatever it is. Even like buying a new pickup, am I wasting potential money for the estate? Should I go get a new one? Should I not? Should I get a tractor? Should I do this? It is just a mind game that I haven't conquered. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. But again, I'm lucky compared to a lot of people. I mean, 2018 to now, eight years? That's pretty good. I mean, I'd like it to be 28 years at some point. I've got older grandkids, got younger grandkids. One of the dreams like everybody else. So, it's a tough journey. Tough journey.

Host: I'd say, thankfully, now you're having many more good days than bad days. But when you're having one of those hard times, what is it that gives you the strength to work through those hard days?

Vance Hunter: Well, you don't have a choice. It's what it is. Who thinks they're ever going to be in a car wreck? Who thought we would ever have the fires in Stillwater that would affect so many lives? That's why we had the fire department. Well, they couldn't. They were overwhelmed. They didn't fail. They were overwhelmed. You're never ready as a person to become a statistic. Drug abuse, you know, substance abuse, you never think you're going to be a family that's affected by that. You never think you're going to be affected by cancer. You know, people that have a heart attack. They didn't think it was coming. "That's not going to happen to me."

You know, my gallbladder situation that we discussed with Lori, I went in for a simple outpatient gallbladder surgery, and I wound up on life support for 12 days—and checked out once. I coded. But that story, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. That's Lori's journey. But it's a burden. I mean, it's the slap in the face of mortality, I guess.

Host: Vance, we close every episode with what we call a challenge to care. Because of everything you've been through and are going through, what is one thing you wish more people understood about walking alongside someone facing cancer?

Vance Hunter: Well, Lori's been unbelievable. She's been there the entire journey. You know, Larry Reece, he's been a solid resource, because he's been on the journey. But for the people that have the disease, they know what's going on in your head. Now, it may be a different type, it may be something else, but they're the ones that are carrying the burden of it's me. The people that don't have the cancer but are going along the journey, they have a different journey. They don't know how you feel inside. No matter what you say, they don't know. Things that might sound negative, you're not being negative, you're just expressing something that you need to express. For me, the scans scare me. I mean, they just destroy my energy, because what if? Because I know the seeds are planted, you know, the person walking along saying, "Oh, there's nothing to worry about." Oh no, there is something to worry about for me. I'm worried about it. Now, they may be worried too. So then, there's a burden on them.

So, it's patience, I guess, I would have to say would be the biggest thing because the emotions that you deal with are in stages, you know, it's like, what is it? There's five stages to dealing with death. There's almost those same five dealing with the terminal illness, except you're the one dealing with it, because you haven't gone to that other phase yet, you know. I'm not looking forward to that. But, you know, it's what I'm saying there, in our conversation we had earlier, you know, a few days ago, was I can't speak for that person. I don't know that journey. I haven't walked that. I haven't been in those shoes. The people that have been on my journey, they understand their journey. I understand mine, but there's a little bit of a commonality of the mental game. I just call it the mental game. I don't know what the technical thing is of it, but it's the mental game and it's the challenge of keeping spirits up. The busier I stay, the better for me. Downtime's hard. I have to keep in motion. So, OSU working to help them, trying to help SMC, that's motion. The ranch is motion. You know, I tried to do quite a few things.

I think the other thing I would say is the people walking along with their patient, especially in the Stillwater area. I think if you could just take some time to think about what you can do to help our medical support teams in our area. I've talked to a lot of people and they say, "Oh, well, insurance paying for that and it costs this much." Yeah, it costs a lot of money. It costs a hell of a lot of money. But I would rather put a lot of money into their time so we have the best of the best in our area. And I wished I had invested in the institution and the ER much earlier. A little at a time, much earlier. Because over time, I think that would've helped more. Because we're addressing problems now, we're almost to the point we might be preventing some issues, but if other people joined us, we could turn it from addressing issues to being proactive, not reactive, I should say.

Host: Well, Vance, sincerely, thank you for sharing your story. Your experience really does remind all of us that, you know, life is a journey and there are lots of players in our journey that have impacts on our lives. And it truly takes a community, a caring community, to help us through these experiences, to live our lives. And it just means so much to have someone like you come on and be open enough to tell us your story and be vulnerable. It will make a difference. And we very much appreciate it.

And then, to our listeners, thank you for listening. We hope that you will listen to us again whenever we talk to Lori about the often overlooked experience of the caregivers, because I do think that is something. The story of and from a caregiver, we've all been there. We've all been there. Not as many people has been in your position, Vance. But for every one patient going through something like you're going through, there are so many other lives impacted on that caregiver side. So, we're very excited that Lori is open to talking to us about that, and I hope that everybody will come back and see what she has to say. So, thank you very much.

Vance Hunter: Hey, Joe, appreciate you. Like always. Let's keep grinding away. Let's keep building this thing. We'll get there.

Host: Sounds good. Thanks, Vance.

Vance Hunter: Appreciate you all.