Selected Podcast
ASK Day - June 21
Dr. Lindsay Clukies discusses the meaning of ASK Day and shares important gun safety information.
Featuring:
Lindsay Clukies, MD
Lindsay Clukies, MD is a Washington University Emergency Medicine Pediatrician. Transcription:
Lindsay Clukies, MD (Guest): Hi. I am Dr. Lindsay Clukies and I’m a Washington University Emergency Pediatrician with St. Louis Children’s Hospital and I’m a MomDoc.
Melanie Cole (Host): Heh, welcome to MomDocs, the podcast from St. Louis Children’s Hospital. I’m Melanie Cole and today, we’re talking about ASK Day, June 21st. Dr. Clukies, I’m so glad to have you with us and what a great topic. Let’s start with some of the statistics around accidental gunshot wounds and deaths for children. What do you see?
Dr. Clukies: At St. Louis Children’s Hospital, we see more firearm injuries than a large portion of children’s hospitals in the country. The American Academy of Pediatrics has tons of statistics on firearm injuries in kids. And from their research, we know that there are almost 20,000 children who are injured or killed by firearms every single year. We also know that about a third of the homes with children in the United States have a gun. So, that’s one in three people around you have a gun and almost two million children live in a home with a gun that is loaded and unlocked. We know that younger children, so the toddlers, the younger children, the school age children are more likely to be injured or killed by accidental shootings, so unintentional shootings. And of these, a majority of them, almost I think 80% occur in the home. So, we think it’s very, very important to ask about guns in other people’s homes. Of the shootings that occur in homes, about one third of them happen in the home of other people. So, friends, neighbors, relatives, et cetera.
Host: Incredible statistics and pretty scary for parents. And before we get into the details of ASK Day, let’s talk about parents that are gun owners and properly securing guns and ammunition. What do you want them to know about having guns in the home and AAP recommendations, things that you want them to know if they are going to be truly responsible gun owners?
Dr. Clukies: Our goal here is to keep children safe and we know that kids are curious, and we know that it’s not enough to simply hide guns of talk to children about guns. In fact, about 75% of children who live in a home with a gun knows where that gun is and that’s despite what caregivers actually believe. So, a lot of people think that my gun is in a drawer in my dresser and my child has no idea, but when we’ve studied this, we know that most children in fact, know where those guns are and if a child finds a gun, it’s more likely than not that the child will play with it. We know based on experience unfortunately, that even toddlers are able to pull the trigger of a gun. So, just because you have a two year old or a toddler, doesn’t mean that this isn’t an important topic for you. It takes seconds for it to be an absolute tragedy and our goal is to keep children safe.
And to do that, we recommend that guns are stored unloaded and locked away with the ammunition stored separately.
Host: So, besides that fact of accidental gunshot wounds, hasn’t it been shown that suicide rates for teens in homes with guns, because you think of a child that has to search around for a way to do something so terrible, if there’s a gun in the house, it makes what might have been a temporary issue, a permanent solution and much easier to accomplish.
Dr. Clukies: Absolutely. So, we know that teenagers who commit suicide with a firearm, about 80 to 90% of those teenagers had access to a gun in a home which is another reason that these guns should be stored locked away and securely. And I think a lot of people think, this isn’t going to happen to me, and the reality is, once you see a child shot by a firearm, like we do at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, it’s engrained in your mind forever and you want to do something to protect these kids. and the research shows that if 50% more people started storing their firearms securely; about 250 children would be save a year.
Host: Wow. And it’s such a difficult topic for some people to discuss with their neighbors and I know that when my kids were little, I was one of those mothers. I was not afraid to ask and I would call up the parents and ask them straight out. I mean I kind of didn’t care but a lot of people do. They feel like it’s confrontational. They may feel a little bit too shy to ask. How can parents makes these questions and conversations less awkward and what questions should parents be asking their kids friends before they allow their kids to go to a friend’s house?
Dr. Clukies: So, I think it’s really important to normalize the question and honestly, I think it is going to just acknowledge the awkwardness. So, a lot of people start by saying this question makes me awkward, but I’m going to do it and I think that’s a great way to start. I think in general; we just need to start talking about guns. So, there’s absolutely no reason to be embarrassed or awkward about it. and what I like to say to parents is, if I told you that there’s one question you can ask to save your child’s life, would you do it? And of course, every parent says yes to that. And that’s the reality about guns in the home. It should be part of a normal conversation when preparing for a playdate. Oftentimes, parents go through their playdate checklist and they ask about pools, and they ask about food allergies and pets and whose doing the supervision. And I argue that guns should be part of that conversation. They should be included as part of the playdate checklist. I think some people think it’s taboo, but I would argue that the safety of our children takes precedence over any of that. And I think it’s important to start talking about guns and sharing the statistics.
If you are too nervous to ask about it, just remember that a third of the homes in the US with children in it, have a gun. So, if your child goes on three separate playdates, one of those homes will likely have a gun. And many of those are left unlocked and loaded.
Host: So, if we do ask, and the parents says yes, I do have that and you say, are they locked and are the ammunition kept in a different place? Tell me a little bit about your home and they tell us something we don’t really want to hear. Then what are some alternatives if parents don’t feel safe letting their kids play in that home and how do we say that to the parent? We say I’m not comfortable with my child being there. What else can we do?
Dr. Clukies: So, you want to ask. It’s a three part question. And you want to ask is there a gun in the home. If the answer is yes, you want to know is it secured and then is it stored separately from the ammunition with both those things being locked. And if there is any concern for the question, I think if there’s any doubts about the safety of another home, you have to keep your child away from that. And you may say, you know what, I’m a little bit more comfortable with your child coming to my house. So, invite them to your house. Or suggest meeting in a neutral environment. that’s a little bit harder with the Coronavirus pandemic right now, because there’s less options out there. But recommend a park or a different type of play environment and I like to say, always go back to the statistics because they are frightening. If you tell a parent, this doesn’t make me comfortable because these are the numbers, no one can argue that.
Host: That’s true. Although, as you said it can get awkward, but these are really great tips. And so tell us why do you believe there were a record number of gunshot wounds in the Children’s emergency department this past May? What was going on do you think?
Dr. Clukies: So, in May we saw more firearm related injuries in one month than we have previously. And I think it’s a combination of factors. So, every year, we do see an increase in gun related injuries in the warmer months when people are more likely to be outside. I think during the time of this Coronavirus pandemic we know that gun sales in general are increasing nationally. I think there’s a little bit of fear and people are doing some panic buying so we know that gun sales are up. We are seeing both an increase in intentional and accidental shootings and like I mentioned before, younger children are more likely to be injured by the accidental shootings which more frequently occur at home. And the truth is, right now, with a lot of shelter in place orders and a lot of places being closed; children are spending more time at home. We know that a lot of these homes have unsecured firearms. Children are home more often right now. And that can lead to a disaster. Right now people are home more. And I think safe gun storage always matters but I think it matters even more right now.
Host: Well it certainly does and tell us some resources in the St. Louis community to promote safe gun and ammunition storage.
Dr. Clukies: We actually have gun locks that we give for free in our emergency department to families there. And then there’s a great resource in the community called Lock It For Love. They are a community outreach and education program and their purpose is to educate the community about gun safety as well as distribute free gun locks. So, through donations and through funding, they actually have a large number of gun locks that they distribute to the community to make sure these children are safe.
Host: What a great resource and Dr. Clukies, as we wrap up, your best advice about ASK Day that some parents feel is a very awkward question. They are not sure they want to ask but how important it is, what you see as an emergency room physician, why it is so important to ask.
Dr. Clukies: So, ASK day stands for asking saves kids and I think that’s the most important thing to remember. There’s one question that can save the life of your child and I think it’s extremely important. It’s an annual reminder for parents and caregivers that the simple question can save lives. And I know from experience, from personal experience, once you hear the cries of a parent who lost their child to a preventable shooting like something, we see at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, you never forget that.
Host: Thank you so much for your expertise on this and your passion for this topic Dr. Clukies. Thank you again for joining us and for more information on ASK Day, please visit the American Academy of Pediatrics website at www.aap.org. They have information at www.healthychildren.org as well. That concludes another episode of MomDocs with St. Louis Children’s Hospital. For more advice just like you heard here, please check out the MomDocs website at www.childrensmd.org. Parents share this show with your friends, with your family. Share it on social media. Because that way, we learn together from the experts at St. Louis Children’s Hospital and it could save your child’s life. Thank you for listening. I’m Melanie Cole.
Lindsay Clukies, MD (Guest): Hi. I am Dr. Lindsay Clukies and I’m a Washington University Emergency Pediatrician with St. Louis Children’s Hospital and I’m a MomDoc.
Melanie Cole (Host): Heh, welcome to MomDocs, the podcast from St. Louis Children’s Hospital. I’m Melanie Cole and today, we’re talking about ASK Day, June 21st. Dr. Clukies, I’m so glad to have you with us and what a great topic. Let’s start with some of the statistics around accidental gunshot wounds and deaths for children. What do you see?
Dr. Clukies: At St. Louis Children’s Hospital, we see more firearm injuries than a large portion of children’s hospitals in the country. The American Academy of Pediatrics has tons of statistics on firearm injuries in kids. And from their research, we know that there are almost 20,000 children who are injured or killed by firearms every single year. We also know that about a third of the homes with children in the United States have a gun. So, that’s one in three people around you have a gun and almost two million children live in a home with a gun that is loaded and unlocked. We know that younger children, so the toddlers, the younger children, the school age children are more likely to be injured or killed by accidental shootings, so unintentional shootings. And of these, a majority of them, almost I think 80% occur in the home. So, we think it’s very, very important to ask about guns in other people’s homes. Of the shootings that occur in homes, about one third of them happen in the home of other people. So, friends, neighbors, relatives, et cetera.
Host: Incredible statistics and pretty scary for parents. And before we get into the details of ASK Day, let’s talk about parents that are gun owners and properly securing guns and ammunition. What do you want them to know about having guns in the home and AAP recommendations, things that you want them to know if they are going to be truly responsible gun owners?
Dr. Clukies: Our goal here is to keep children safe and we know that kids are curious, and we know that it’s not enough to simply hide guns of talk to children about guns. In fact, about 75% of children who live in a home with a gun knows where that gun is and that’s despite what caregivers actually believe. So, a lot of people think that my gun is in a drawer in my dresser and my child has no idea, but when we’ve studied this, we know that most children in fact, know where those guns are and if a child finds a gun, it’s more likely than not that the child will play with it. We know based on experience unfortunately, that even toddlers are able to pull the trigger of a gun. So, just because you have a two year old or a toddler, doesn’t mean that this isn’t an important topic for you. It takes seconds for it to be an absolute tragedy and our goal is to keep children safe.
And to do that, we recommend that guns are stored unloaded and locked away with the ammunition stored separately.
Host: So, besides that fact of accidental gunshot wounds, hasn’t it been shown that suicide rates for teens in homes with guns, because you think of a child that has to search around for a way to do something so terrible, if there’s a gun in the house, it makes what might have been a temporary issue, a permanent solution and much easier to accomplish.
Dr. Clukies: Absolutely. So, we know that teenagers who commit suicide with a firearm, about 80 to 90% of those teenagers had access to a gun in a home which is another reason that these guns should be stored locked away and securely. And I think a lot of people think, this isn’t going to happen to me, and the reality is, once you see a child shot by a firearm, like we do at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, it’s engrained in your mind forever and you want to do something to protect these kids. and the research shows that if 50% more people started storing their firearms securely; about 250 children would be save a year.
Host: Wow. And it’s such a difficult topic for some people to discuss with their neighbors and I know that when my kids were little, I was one of those mothers. I was not afraid to ask and I would call up the parents and ask them straight out. I mean I kind of didn’t care but a lot of people do. They feel like it’s confrontational. They may feel a little bit too shy to ask. How can parents makes these questions and conversations less awkward and what questions should parents be asking their kids friends before they allow their kids to go to a friend’s house?
Dr. Clukies: So, I think it’s really important to normalize the question and honestly, I think it is going to just acknowledge the awkwardness. So, a lot of people start by saying this question makes me awkward, but I’m going to do it and I think that’s a great way to start. I think in general; we just need to start talking about guns. So, there’s absolutely no reason to be embarrassed or awkward about it. and what I like to say to parents is, if I told you that there’s one question you can ask to save your child’s life, would you do it? And of course, every parent says yes to that. And that’s the reality about guns in the home. It should be part of a normal conversation when preparing for a playdate. Oftentimes, parents go through their playdate checklist and they ask about pools, and they ask about food allergies and pets and whose doing the supervision. And I argue that guns should be part of that conversation. They should be included as part of the playdate checklist. I think some people think it’s taboo, but I would argue that the safety of our children takes precedence over any of that. And I think it’s important to start talking about guns and sharing the statistics.
If you are too nervous to ask about it, just remember that a third of the homes in the US with children in it, have a gun. So, if your child goes on three separate playdates, one of those homes will likely have a gun. And many of those are left unlocked and loaded.
Host: So, if we do ask, and the parents says yes, I do have that and you say, are they locked and are the ammunition kept in a different place? Tell me a little bit about your home and they tell us something we don’t really want to hear. Then what are some alternatives if parents don’t feel safe letting their kids play in that home and how do we say that to the parent? We say I’m not comfortable with my child being there. What else can we do?
Dr. Clukies: So, you want to ask. It’s a three part question. And you want to ask is there a gun in the home. If the answer is yes, you want to know is it secured and then is it stored separately from the ammunition with both those things being locked. And if there is any concern for the question, I think if there’s any doubts about the safety of another home, you have to keep your child away from that. And you may say, you know what, I’m a little bit more comfortable with your child coming to my house. So, invite them to your house. Or suggest meeting in a neutral environment. that’s a little bit harder with the Coronavirus pandemic right now, because there’s less options out there. But recommend a park or a different type of play environment and I like to say, always go back to the statistics because they are frightening. If you tell a parent, this doesn’t make me comfortable because these are the numbers, no one can argue that.
Host: That’s true. Although, as you said it can get awkward, but these are really great tips. And so tell us why do you believe there were a record number of gunshot wounds in the Children’s emergency department this past May? What was going on do you think?
Dr. Clukies: So, in May we saw more firearm related injuries in one month than we have previously. And I think it’s a combination of factors. So, every year, we do see an increase in gun related injuries in the warmer months when people are more likely to be outside. I think during the time of this Coronavirus pandemic we know that gun sales in general are increasing nationally. I think there’s a little bit of fear and people are doing some panic buying so we know that gun sales are up. We are seeing both an increase in intentional and accidental shootings and like I mentioned before, younger children are more likely to be injured by the accidental shootings which more frequently occur at home. And the truth is, right now, with a lot of shelter in place orders and a lot of places being closed; children are spending more time at home. We know that a lot of these homes have unsecured firearms. Children are home more often right now. And that can lead to a disaster. Right now people are home more. And I think safe gun storage always matters but I think it matters even more right now.
Host: Well it certainly does and tell us some resources in the St. Louis community to promote safe gun and ammunition storage.
Dr. Clukies: We actually have gun locks that we give for free in our emergency department to families there. And then there’s a great resource in the community called Lock It For Love. They are a community outreach and education program and their purpose is to educate the community about gun safety as well as distribute free gun locks. So, through donations and through funding, they actually have a large number of gun locks that they distribute to the community to make sure these children are safe.
Host: What a great resource and Dr. Clukies, as we wrap up, your best advice about ASK Day that some parents feel is a very awkward question. They are not sure they want to ask but how important it is, what you see as an emergency room physician, why it is so important to ask.
Dr. Clukies: So, ASK day stands for asking saves kids and I think that’s the most important thing to remember. There’s one question that can save the life of your child and I think it’s extremely important. It’s an annual reminder for parents and caregivers that the simple question can save lives. And I know from experience, from personal experience, once you hear the cries of a parent who lost their child to a preventable shooting like something, we see at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, you never forget that.
Host: Thank you so much for your expertise on this and your passion for this topic Dr. Clukies. Thank you again for joining us and for more information on ASK Day, please visit the American Academy of Pediatrics website at www.aap.org. They have information at www.healthychildren.org as well. That concludes another episode of MomDocs with St. Louis Children’s Hospital. For more advice just like you heard here, please check out the MomDocs website at www.childrensmd.org. Parents share this show with your friends, with your family. Share it on social media. Because that way, we learn together from the experts at St. Louis Children’s Hospital and it could save your child’s life. Thank you for listening. I’m Melanie Cole.