Transcription:
Swimming in Unforgiveness

Melanie:  Welcome to Stoughton Health Talk. I'm Melanie Cole. And I invite you to listen to this very important episode as we discuss Swimming in Unforgiveness. Joining me is Tim Markle. He's the founder of Forgiveness Factor and an instructor at Stoughton Health and a contributor to the International Forgiveness Institute.

Tim, it's a pleasure to have you with us. We have unprecedented times right now. We're seeing anger on both sides of the aisle, families fighting families, friends breaking up. Is the world around us encouraging us to forgive or is it encouraging us right now to hold on to these anger and resentments? And if so, can that sometimes be a positive thing?

Tim Markle: Thank you so much for having me. And I really believe that right now, we could literally say that we are swimming in unforgiveness, is that as we look around at the world around us, what we see is like you said that anger. But I think we're almost beyond that, is before we sort of had this idea that if someone hurt me, I get to hurt them back. And it was a one for one relationship, which of course doesn't get us anywhere. It just keeps us hurting each other. But it's almost like we move beyond that. It's almost like we move to "I think you might hurt me or I think you might do something wrong, so I'm going to get you first," is we've kind of moved beyond the revenge is a dish best served cold to revenge is a dish that's best thrown first.

And we've reached out and we've decided that we have the right to hurt people, whether they've hurt us or not. Just if they disrespect us, we could hurt them. And it's a very scary place to live in.

Melanie: Seems to be getting meaner. And while we've learned that stress, stress can have its positives, right? It can make you strong. It can help you to be resilient sometimes. Can this anger spur you? we've seen a lot of activism. That's one thing that we've seen. And so they've called that sort of, you know, community anger or worldwide, whatever. So it can spur activism, right? It can make you do something you might not have otherwise been comfortable to get out of your comfort zone to do, right?

Tim Markle: Absolutely. And that's, you know, like you said, all stress can be good or it can be bad. It can motivate us to change. Now, the problem is when we get motivated to change, what is the cost of that change and who's paying that cost? And so the cost of situational or societal change can be great and the outcomes can be fantastic. Bringing more people into the conversation, having more people part of the change is all fantastic. Having people realize how things have stayed the same for years and years and years, and that's not okay anymore. And that's all fine.

But if it gets down to the point where all you do is walk around feeling angry, and you could feel your muscles tensed up and you're constantly distracted by all the wrongs that are going on and emotionally, you're starting to feel depressed and relationships are getting disconnected and you're feeling like there should be more and all you have is anger, then I think that's when it's time to step back and say, "Okay, I may be motivated to change, but how is this affecting me internally? How is it affecting my relationships? Is this really a positive thing for me?" And looking at the personal cost of how costly that anger can be in our lives, especially in our relationships.

Is activism bringing us closer together or is it taking us further apart? Is it separating us or is it bringing about conversations? I think these are important questions that we need to ask ourselves as we deal with our anger.

Melanie: I couldn't agree with you more. And the anger seems to be more explosive. I remember when road rage, if there was one incident, it was all the news. But now of course, we're seeing it in store lines and we're seeing it on the road, we're seeing it everywhere. This explosive anger that people cannot control. In these cases, is forgiveness really an option? Are we supposed to forgive when we feel we've been so wronged? Because I hear you when you say about the anger and walking around with our anger, because I have felt it so much myself, but how do we set about forgiving? Is this something we should be doing even if it's directed at us, this anger?

Tim Markle: I would say absolutely, because I see the results of the anger, the results of the resentment start to show up in those broken relationships. They start to show up in addictions. They start to show up in this constantgesed to walking in this negative world. We get so used to swimming in the unforgiveness that it's we're stuck in this rut. We're stuck in this trench. And we know we can get to point A, from point A to point B through this trench. It's a horrible trip, but we know that this is what we do, this is what we live.

And so it takes that extra consciousness to say, "I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to go to the negative. I'm going to try something different." And that's where forgiveness can come in, is if you are living your life angry and upset, and you're happy about that, then you're not going to consider forgiveness. But it's those people that are looking at the anger, looking at the road rage, feeling it in themselves and saying, "You know what? I don't want to go there anymore. That's not where I want to live." Then forgiveness gives an option to live in another place, to live in forgiveness instead of the anger.

Melanie: How do we do that? Because I hear what you're saying. I want to do that. And I'm sure listeners want to do that. We want to be able to let go of this anger that we're feeling, because as you say, when we walk around and then it can start to affect not only our psychological self in the form of addiction and things, and, you know, bad self-care, but it can also affect our physical health and our physiological health. So Tim, how do we do it?

Tim Markle: You're absolutely right that it can change us physically and it could change us mentally and it could change us emotionally. That's what hurts do. When somebody hurts us and disturbs our life, it starts to change how we view the world around us and it starts to change how we view ourselves. And so one of the first things is to do exactly what we're doing, acknowledge that there is pain, acknowledge that things aren't right.

Forgiveness starts with a wrong being done, is somebody has done something that has hurt me and that's not okay. I do not deserve that. And so forgiveness is not pretending a hurt never happened, pretending there's not injustice. Absolutely not. Forgiveness is acknowledging that injustice and saying that I've been hurt wrongly. And we

identify that hurt. We identify how has it changed us? And we come to that decision point. Do I want to change or don't I? Do I want to continue to live with the unforgiveness? Do I want to continue to live with the bitterness or not? And if we choose that we no longer want to live with the bitterness, then we could start the path of forgiveness, which begins with identifying that I've been hurt, acknowledging that pain, deciding that I don't want to live in that pain anymore, and then looking at the offender and saying, “How is it that I view people?"

And this comes down to the one of the basic tenets of forgiveness, is that we need to begin to change our point of view as people that can be turned into monsters into the fact that all people have inherent worth. "I don't need to agree with you. I don't need to like you, but do I believe that you have inherent worth?" Absolutely. "I don't think you earn the basic respect of humanity. I think that's something that's given to us at birth."

And so if we can start to change looking at people as monsters and as unfixable, and by the way, begin to think of ourselves not as monsters and not as unfixable, but begin to see the inherent worth in the people around us. That's one of the first steps to being able to forgive someone, is to moving from monster to humanity, is rehumanizing those people that have hurt us, because if we continue to just call them names, continue to put them into boxes, continue to believe that we know who they are without giving them any sort of worth, if we've decided they're not worth anything, then why should we bother to forgive them?

But I believe part of what we're dealing with in the world today is that we decided some people aren't worth it. And that's so sad. I believe everybody is worth it. That everybody has inherent worth. And so forgiveness is coming back to that thought of people having inherent worth, because if you have someone who has hurt you, but yet you believe they have inherent worth, then you can treat them differently than if you believe they're a monster. If you believe they're irredeemable.

And so we look at the pain that has been caused us, the fact that it's real, the fact that it's somebody who has done this, it's not something that has just happened. But it's somebody who has hurt us and that person has inherent worth, we can look at the circumstances of how they've hurt us. Again, not to make excuses, but to understand that you know what, we're not the only people that hurt.

It's that generally those people that have hurt us the most are the people that are hurting the most. There's a phrase out there called "hurt people hurt people," is we come to realize that those people that hurt us are hurting themselves, that they themselves have been wounded. Now, again, not to write off the pain that they've caused, absolutely not. But to understand a little bit more about where they're at and who they are and that even if I disagree with them with every bone in my body, it does not mean I have to hate them, doesn't mean I have to disrespect them.

We have to come back to this idea of inherent worth and seeing people with this new vision of not being monsters, not being enemies, but being fellow human beings that have also been hurt on this journey. Those are the stepping stones. And a lot of it is going back to those stepping stones because forgiveness is not easy. When you're swimming in unforgiveness, forgiveness seems to be the harder choice because it is. It's a very hard choice to make, but what you get in return is a sense of peace. You get to not walk around defensively at everything. You get to have a little bit of joy back in your life because everything's not ruined. And I don't believe everything is ruined. I believe we have examples of forgiveness that are out there, but we're not looking for it.

And so the other thing I encourage people to do is to change the point of view as you wake up in the morning. Are you going to wake up and decide that it's a horrible day, decide that it's a horrible world out there? Then you're going to find a horrible world out there. You're going to find a horrible day.

But what if you wake up and you start looking for the good? What if he starts to wake up and start looking for forgiveness in the world? Start looking for mercy, start finding those examples? And if we can overpower the negativity with these examples of forgiveness, with these examples of mercy, then we can start to believe that it's possible.

Right now, now we're being told to believe that it's not possible with every news cast, with every word that seems to be going on out there. And I don't believe that for a second. I believe that there is good and that there are some fantastic people doing good work out there. And I believe in forgiveness

Melanie: I hear you and I love your hurt people hurt people analogy statement, but sometimes there's also the statement of when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And so while I completely agree with you waking up in the morning and deciding what we want to do for that day. And really right now, as we see social media, Tim, I mean it can make you angry. It can make this emotional roller coaster that we all seem to be on right now. It can make you sad. All of these things. I mean I take the break and go on to TikTok and learn a new recipe or watch an adorable animal do a cute thing. But. I hear what you're saying.

So as we begin that day and we start this process, what do you feel are some of the most important points before we wrap up that you want us to take with us as far as when we wake up, making that decision, how to go about making it, putting away social media, and while you're telling us all that, tell us about your class.

Tim Markle: So I could tell you that I have learned, and this has been a positive of the pandemic. Before I had to work from home, I was rushing around and trying to get everything done in the morning. Now, it's a walk from my bedroom to the table. So what does that give me time to do? That gives me time to stop, to breathe, to connect with my higher power, to do those things to remind myself who I am, is that I'm a human being. I am worth it. I deserve respect. And so that's how I start my day with my meditations.

And I would encourage people to don't start the day. Some days our lives get hectic and we can't do anything about it, is the socks have disappeared, milk has spoiled. It's just not all there. So what can we do in those cases? We can remember the important things are the people, is that people take priority over things.

And so if we put our people as the priority, our children as a priority, our neighbors as a priority, ourselves sometimes need that priority, is self-care is really taking care of other people because you can't take care of others unless you're taking care of yourself. And so one of the things I do recommend people is that you find this pocket of positive people, is that we need people in our lives who are feeding goodness to us, who see us as hurting and who are able to still feed goodness to us that refuse to engage in the constant negativity.

So find your pockets of positive people. Find your time to disconnect, to disconnect from the things on the outside so you could reconnect with who you are on the inside, and change your point of view. Decide that you're not going to see the negative everywhere today, but that you're going to find the positive and start small.

Just find one positive thing out of the day to day. And if you want to think about driving, I'd love your example of road rage at the beginning, we can do all of this as we drive to in front of the grocery store, is what if I decided I'm not the one that needs to get there first, but I'm looking for other people, letting other people in, is that I'm looking for opportunities to show compassion, opportunities to show mercy.

We know they don't deserve to cut us off, but what if instead of honking at them and getting angry at them and shaking our fist, we sit there and go, "Wow. They must be having a really rotten day, because that was a really stupid thing to do. I think I'll give them mercy today and not honk my horn."

Start with the little stuff, start with the little everyday chances and then you can build on those. You can build your new habits, your new rut of positivity, just like we built the old ones. So right now, what we're doing with Stoughton Hospital is we've broken up forgiveness into different categories and topics. So presently, we've been talking about swimming in unforgiveness.

We just talked about, what you can do if you're not ready to forgive, but you're getting tired of all of this ick. And that goes back to the, you know, look at the negativity, stop being negative. One of the things I tell people to do is it would probably be really helpful in their life if they would just shut up, just stop being negative, stop talking about other people. Just see how much of our life is taken up by this talking about others. so the whole idea of shut up.

We're then going to go into the basic steps of forgiveness. And that's what we're going to hit December 2nd, is we're going to talk about what are some of the basic steps of forgiveness, then we're going to go into, how do you forgive yourself.

In almost every class that I teach, I find that people are just so upset with themselves, is that a lot of their unforgiveness and resentment that they have, they're holding against themselves as they're blaming themselves. And so we go on into talking about unforgiveness, how to forgive ourselves, this unforgiveness we have against us.

In January, we're going to pivot to, what role does forgive this play in suicide prevention and awareness, and then we're going to cover the role of forgiveness within addiction and in addiction recovery. I believe forgiveness can play a huge role in suicide prevention as well as postvention in helping us get over the suicide act, and also in addiction and addiction recovery. So that's the journey that I'm asking people to take with us.

Melanie: Well, it certainly is going to help so many people. And I think you were right here in my house with me because all of those things you've described I have felt, and it's not as easy to let things roll off, but it is something that when you do, it totally changes your whole outlook. So thank you, Tim, for joining us today and really helping us through some of the tough times people are experiencing right now.

You can visit our website at StoughtonHealth.com for more information on Swimming in Unforgiveness classes, and to get connected with one of our providers. That concludes this episode of Stoughton Health Talk. Please remember to subscribe, rate and review this podcast and all the other Stoughton Hospital podcasts.

I'm Melanie Cole.