In this episode of The Checkup, featuring Selwyn Vickers M.D., FACS, he explains how a number of academic medical centers began to outline their findings regarding women and the pay that they receive, which was often at lower rates than their male peers.
He shares how this will allow UAB to identify whether there are inappropriate different levels of compensation based on things that may have been driven by unconscious bias, like gender.
Selected Podcast
Gender Equity Compensation Review
Featuring:
Selwyn Vickers, MD, FACS
Selwyn Vickers, MD, FACS is the Senior Vice President for Medicine and Dean of the School of Medicine.
Transcription:
Melanie Cole, MS (Host): Welcome to this episode of the Checkup featuring Dr. Selwyn Vickers, senior vice president for medicine and dean of the School of Medicine at UAB. Today we’re discussing gender equity compensation review. Dr. Vickers, why is the School of Medicine undergoing a gender equity review?
Selwyn Vickers M.D., FACS (Guest): A few years ago Melanie I was approached by a number of our faculty to ask if the School of Medicine would be willing to do this. Simultaneously across the county a number of academic medical centers, including our major association the American Association of Medical Colleges, began to outline their findings regarding women and the pay that they receive, which was often at lower rates than their male peers. They encouraged schools to do this and we believed as well that this was an extremely important area that we needed to address. We feel it’s paramount for us to be an outstanding academic medical center. It also is paramount for us to seek equity for all of our faculty, particularly our women faculty. It’s really key for us when we want to attract top talented faculty to UAB to make sure we’ve done this. That we honor their productivity and their performance.
Host: So what does the process of the equity review entail Dr. Vickers?
Dr. Vickers: So Melanie there are a number of phases. The early phases are really gathering data. The quality of the data you get often determines the results you have. So we’re being very thoughtful. If there's anything we’ve put a lot of time in is actually making sure we do the right process to collect data. We are now, with the departments, collecting that data through CVs and information from all of our faculty. That information will be sent to an independent labor economist who will complete the intensive review. Afterwards we’ll take a number of steps to study and analyze the findings. It will be delivered to an oversight committee, which has our faculty on it. The committee will work with the labor economist to finalize the results.
Now the goal of this data is to really correct any discrepancies based on gender identify faculty member salaries, but we will review other factors too to make sure people are paid fairly. Even based on ethnicity or other things that are inappropriate where their payment is not equal to their peers. Most of all I think we need to understand that no one’s compensation will be negatively impacted by the study. This is not necessarily leveling by lowering others. This will be by more raising for those who need to be brought in equity with their peers.
Host: Well it sounds like a fairly intensive process doctor. How long do you expect it to take approximately?
Dr. Vickers: We've put a timeline that we have put out to our leaders and to our faculty to give them a measure of what we expect and how long and also to put ourselves out there to be accountable. We expect a data collection process to be done before the end of the year, hopefully around late December. From there we think the analysis will take eight to nine months because the school is a large organization, there are multiple faculty, and there will be an intensive amount of effort to make sure the data is accurate, review it thoroughly, and understand both the actionable items that will be important for us to present at the end of 2020. So we’re hopefully this time next year we will have data and we will have items of how we not only present it but how do we move forward to actually effect and change any disparities that we find.
Host: It’s so comprehensive, Dr. Vickers, and you mentioned that some faculty members may see compensation increases as a result of the review. How might an individual be impacted? Are only female faculty members likely to be impacted?
Dr. Vickers: No. I think first and foremost it’s important that faculty members know that no one’s compensation will be negatively effected by the review process. We will do all the things we can to prevent this sort of collateral damage of having somebody’s faculty salary lowered. Secondly, faculty members who will receive increase in pay, it will allow us immediately to address any discrepancies with them personally and to provide appropriate backpay if this discrepancy was identified?
Host: Is it only female faculty members that are likely to be impacted?
Dr. Vickers: You know, I suspect not. I suspect that there might be not only issues related to gender gaps, which is the intention. Like any major study like this and when you put a lot of data in, I suspect we will find some things we didn’t expect. If they relate to discrepancies and disparities that are not based on performance, rank, and their overall standing in the institution, we will correct those disparities as it relates to their salaries. So I suspect that there's opportunities for both men and women who might find benefit from this process and may receive an increase in their compensation.
Host: So interesting. How will faculty members be updated about the status of their review?
Dr. Vickers: I think it’s important that we have a fairly robust and strategic communication effort around it. So at periodic time points we’re going to update the faculty, faculty leaders. This podcast is just the beginning and it’s the first step in making sure that we keep people abreast of the process and be as transparent as we possibly can. I think that is really as important as getting the data, synthesizing it, and getting the answers. I think keeping people abreast and aware of this process is equally important.
Host: It certainly is. So what data elements will be considered in the review?
Dr. Vickers: There are a number of different elements in the review. Some of them are their academic rank, their academic discipline school and department, their work experience at UAB, their prior relevant work experience, their highest level of education, their administrative and distinguished honorific positions and leadership roles within the institution, their tenure status. As well as their productive, their research and clinical productivity as well.
Host: Well, thank you for explaining that, but then how will those elements that you just described be used to identify discrepancies?
Dr. Vickers: The economist and the oversight team will basically be able to pull these data and look at compensation and make sure that there's parity. If there's disparity it’s not driven by gender or ethnicity. If there is disparity, we want to make sure that is basically due to the standard areas or progression within our institutions. Therefore it wouldn’t be called disparity. It would simply be differences. That’s in part how they will help allow us to identify whether there are inappropriate different levels of compensation based on things that may have been driven by unconscious bias, like gender.
Host: So then when and how will a faculty member know if they’ll be impacted by the review?
Dr. Vickers: Although there's not an official date determined, my goal as I mentioned is that we would be able to alert members and have them aware by the end of the next calendar year.
Host: So ultimately, Dr. Vickers what do you hope to achieve through this large undertaking?
Dr. Vickers: We at UAB consider ourselves and compete on a national stage. We want to be nationally relevant in everything that we do. In doing so, we first have to locally make sure that we are creating opportunities for equity. I think not only the relevant piece, we want to be nationally prominent. I think, again, locally we must be very clear that we are on the leading edge of treatment of all of our faculty members, and that we are going to do all that’s possible to ensure equity. We want to guarantee our faculty members that they're being fairly paid in accordance with the training and accomplishments they have and their experience. That they wouldn’t have suffered from unintended consequences, as I mentioned from bias, that may or may not have been recognized earlier. We want faculty members in the community to know that we are committed to equity. That no matter our size, we will take on these large projects to make sure that there aren’t systemic errors—and sometimes systemic failures—that we have not addressed.
Host: Thank you so much Dr. Vickers for this great information today. It certainly sets UAB really apart and above all the rest. That concludes this episode of the Checkup with Dr. Selwyn Vickers, senior vice president for medicine and dean of the UAB School of Medicine. Please visit uab.edu/thecheckup to learn more about this podcast and to keep up with new episodes. Please submit questions or topic suggestions through the ‘Ask the Dean’ form on the School of Medicine website. I'm Melanie Cole.
Melanie Cole, MS (Host): Welcome to this episode of the Checkup featuring Dr. Selwyn Vickers, senior vice president for medicine and dean of the School of Medicine at UAB. Today we’re discussing gender equity compensation review. Dr. Vickers, why is the School of Medicine undergoing a gender equity review?
Selwyn Vickers M.D., FACS (Guest): A few years ago Melanie I was approached by a number of our faculty to ask if the School of Medicine would be willing to do this. Simultaneously across the county a number of academic medical centers, including our major association the American Association of Medical Colleges, began to outline their findings regarding women and the pay that they receive, which was often at lower rates than their male peers. They encouraged schools to do this and we believed as well that this was an extremely important area that we needed to address. We feel it’s paramount for us to be an outstanding academic medical center. It also is paramount for us to seek equity for all of our faculty, particularly our women faculty. It’s really key for us when we want to attract top talented faculty to UAB to make sure we’ve done this. That we honor their productivity and their performance.
Host: So what does the process of the equity review entail Dr. Vickers?
Dr. Vickers: So Melanie there are a number of phases. The early phases are really gathering data. The quality of the data you get often determines the results you have. So we’re being very thoughtful. If there's anything we’ve put a lot of time in is actually making sure we do the right process to collect data. We are now, with the departments, collecting that data through CVs and information from all of our faculty. That information will be sent to an independent labor economist who will complete the intensive review. Afterwards we’ll take a number of steps to study and analyze the findings. It will be delivered to an oversight committee, which has our faculty on it. The committee will work with the labor economist to finalize the results.
Now the goal of this data is to really correct any discrepancies based on gender identify faculty member salaries, but we will review other factors too to make sure people are paid fairly. Even based on ethnicity or other things that are inappropriate where their payment is not equal to their peers. Most of all I think we need to understand that no one’s compensation will be negatively impacted by the study. This is not necessarily leveling by lowering others. This will be by more raising for those who need to be brought in equity with their peers.
Host: Well it sounds like a fairly intensive process doctor. How long do you expect it to take approximately?
Dr. Vickers: We've put a timeline that we have put out to our leaders and to our faculty to give them a measure of what we expect and how long and also to put ourselves out there to be accountable. We expect a data collection process to be done before the end of the year, hopefully around late December. From there we think the analysis will take eight to nine months because the school is a large organization, there are multiple faculty, and there will be an intensive amount of effort to make sure the data is accurate, review it thoroughly, and understand both the actionable items that will be important for us to present at the end of 2020. So we’re hopefully this time next year we will have data and we will have items of how we not only present it but how do we move forward to actually effect and change any disparities that we find.
Host: It’s so comprehensive, Dr. Vickers, and you mentioned that some faculty members may see compensation increases as a result of the review. How might an individual be impacted? Are only female faculty members likely to be impacted?
Dr. Vickers: No. I think first and foremost it’s important that faculty members know that no one’s compensation will be negatively effected by the review process. We will do all the things we can to prevent this sort of collateral damage of having somebody’s faculty salary lowered. Secondly, faculty members who will receive increase in pay, it will allow us immediately to address any discrepancies with them personally and to provide appropriate backpay if this discrepancy was identified?
Host: Is it only female faculty members that are likely to be impacted?
Dr. Vickers: You know, I suspect not. I suspect that there might be not only issues related to gender gaps, which is the intention. Like any major study like this and when you put a lot of data in, I suspect we will find some things we didn’t expect. If they relate to discrepancies and disparities that are not based on performance, rank, and their overall standing in the institution, we will correct those disparities as it relates to their salaries. So I suspect that there's opportunities for both men and women who might find benefit from this process and may receive an increase in their compensation.
Host: So interesting. How will faculty members be updated about the status of their review?
Dr. Vickers: I think it’s important that we have a fairly robust and strategic communication effort around it. So at periodic time points we’re going to update the faculty, faculty leaders. This podcast is just the beginning and it’s the first step in making sure that we keep people abreast of the process and be as transparent as we possibly can. I think that is really as important as getting the data, synthesizing it, and getting the answers. I think keeping people abreast and aware of this process is equally important.
Host: It certainly is. So what data elements will be considered in the review?
Dr. Vickers: There are a number of different elements in the review. Some of them are their academic rank, their academic discipline school and department, their work experience at UAB, their prior relevant work experience, their highest level of education, their administrative and distinguished honorific positions and leadership roles within the institution, their tenure status. As well as their productive, their research and clinical productivity as well.
Host: Well, thank you for explaining that, but then how will those elements that you just described be used to identify discrepancies?
Dr. Vickers: The economist and the oversight team will basically be able to pull these data and look at compensation and make sure that there's parity. If there's disparity it’s not driven by gender or ethnicity. If there is disparity, we want to make sure that is basically due to the standard areas or progression within our institutions. Therefore it wouldn’t be called disparity. It would simply be differences. That’s in part how they will help allow us to identify whether there are inappropriate different levels of compensation based on things that may have been driven by unconscious bias, like gender.
Host: So then when and how will a faculty member know if they’ll be impacted by the review?
Dr. Vickers: Although there's not an official date determined, my goal as I mentioned is that we would be able to alert members and have them aware by the end of the next calendar year.
Host: So ultimately, Dr. Vickers what do you hope to achieve through this large undertaking?
Dr. Vickers: We at UAB consider ourselves and compete on a national stage. We want to be nationally relevant in everything that we do. In doing so, we first have to locally make sure that we are creating opportunities for equity. I think not only the relevant piece, we want to be nationally prominent. I think, again, locally we must be very clear that we are on the leading edge of treatment of all of our faculty members, and that we are going to do all that’s possible to ensure equity. We want to guarantee our faculty members that they're being fairly paid in accordance with the training and accomplishments they have and their experience. That they wouldn’t have suffered from unintended consequences, as I mentioned from bias, that may or may not have been recognized earlier. We want faculty members in the community to know that we are committed to equity. That no matter our size, we will take on these large projects to make sure that there aren’t systemic errors—and sometimes systemic failures—that we have not addressed.
Host: Thank you so much Dr. Vickers for this great information today. It certainly sets UAB really apart and above all the rest. That concludes this episode of the Checkup with Dr. Selwyn Vickers, senior vice president for medicine and dean of the UAB School of Medicine. Please visit uab.edu/thecheckup to learn more about this podcast and to keep up with new episodes. Please submit questions or topic suggestions through the ‘Ask the Dean’ form on the School of Medicine website. I'm Melanie Cole.