Transcription:

Dr Vickers:    Welcome to Checkup. Stephanie Perry, I'm glad we've had a chance to come together. It's a chance for us to talk about Pride Month here at UAB and for you to help us understand the evolution of this for us gaining some recognition and learning the journey of your community in this community for our community. Give us a little background about yourself, but also give us a little background of the milestones that have really happened in the recent years that it really allowed us to recognize the role and the challenges of the LGBT community.

Stephanie Perry: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. So I'm from Birmingham and I have a Master's Degree in Counseling. I obtained that right here from UAB. And I have worked with UAB Health Services Foundation for 13 years now, first as the administrative manager of psychiatric clinics and now as the pediatrics practice manager for the pediatrics primary care clinic. And I've had just the great opportunity for the past several years to conduct several training sessions, mostly for medical providers around helping and treating your lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer plus patients.

Dr Vickers: tell us more about your journey if you'd like to do so.

Stephanie Perry: Yes. When I first came to UAB medicine, I was 23 and landed an entry-level position in the Department of Psychiatry. And this was my first job right out of college. I was so excited and, at the same time, I was also terrified. My fear really stemmed, not just from the pressure of being a perfectionist and a young professional, but really a fear derived from a secret, my secret that I am a lesbian.

And at that time of my life, I wasn't ready to share that truth about myself. And honestly, I wasn't sure if it would be safe or smart to share. If you think about it, like here I am in Birmingham, Alabama, and I am at the time living with my high school girlfriend. And she's my wife now, by the way. And I had in my head that if anyone at work knew the truth about me, I might not be considered for promotions or advancements, projects. The fear was constantly with me and I was miserable. And you know, that's not sustainable. So the only thing I knew to do was to really own that for me.

Dr Vickers: So when you speak of that fear, was it a fear of people accepting you or in their opinion about you limiting your role in advancement in our community?

Stephanie Perry: You know, I would say a little bit of both. Yeah. A fear of not being accepted, a fear of not getting and receiving opportunities, possibly limiting my experience here at UAB. But I would say, I decided for me, I was ready to come out. And I would say any of your listeners need to know that for me, it was right for me. And so it's important for the LGBTQ person to make that decision for them. It's not always safe or right for every individual to come out. But for me, I was ready and I was privileged and lucky enough to be supported by my colleagues, by my boss, by leadership. And I was so empowered that eventually I was able to approach psychiatry leadership with ideas to improve LGBTQ mental health. And really the rest is history.

Dr Vickers: Yeah. So I'm, glad to hear of the response you received from our community. It is disconcerting to hear just the fear that you had and the worry about how you would be accepted. And in part, I think this podcast is to give a sense to this community that we want to make sure they feel welcomed and given the opportunity, affirmed to achieve all of their goals and dreams as a part of our UAB world.

And I think that obviously is a process, but it's one that hopefully we can make sure occurs on a regular basis. Tell me about how are you managing your own personal life in this space as you're a career woman, trying to make your headway at UAB.

Stephanie Perry: Yes. You know, having privilege and opportunity to provide training for medical professionals, frontline staff, when it comes to everything from LGBTQ 101, terminology, best practices to connecting people with resources has been honestly one of my greatest joys to be able to do that.

I would say too that being here at UAB, when I self reflect on that, I think about the UAB non-discrimination policy. It was one of the first of the large universities in the state to include gender identity and sexual orientation and their non-discrimination policy. And that means a lot.

Then secondly, I also think about when I come to work, I get to hear from leadership. What I mean by that, I think about the devastation when it comes to the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, I came to work the next day, right? And with my heart heavy and the first thing I got to see in my inbox was acknowledgement from UAB leadership to all of LGBTQ employees or those employees that have LGBTQ children, that UAB sees you. I don't take that for granted because I know so many of my friends go to workplaces where they showed up that day and nothing was said, right? So I think being able to hear from UAB leadership, it's profound.

Dr Vickers: So what feedback would you give the UAB community on our next steps of growth to support and make sure this is a community where the LGBT workers feel like they have a fair path to success?

Stephanie Perry: There are some things that UAB Medicine is doing so right. And I've been doing this, the trainings in particular since 2015. So much has happened really since then. And I think about the progress with the UAB and the healthcare equality index that we were able to achieve. I mean, those are metrics that we make sure and we are telling our patients that we are working on. We are here, we are competent for the best kind of care to provide you. So, all of that's really important.

I would say, as a supervisor of people, the frontline is important not to forget about. And what I mean, when I say that is sometimes we concentrate on the doctors to make sure they have the education for LGBTQ best practices. And sometimes we forget about those frontline individuals, like your front desk or your nurses or your CMAs, you know. They really make or bake that patient experience. So, if anything, I would have a call to action not to forget about those crucial people and those touch points.

Dr Vickers: Yes. I think the first point of interface for both our patients and for others, it's one where we need to make sure they are well-informed. In that context, speak to me about your take on this area that we've been trying to build deeply within our community at every level, cultural competency. And you, I think, maybe speak of the context of cultural humility. Can you share with that? Tell me the subtle differences and what would this mean for particularly our frontline and senior leaders as well?

Stephanie Perry: Yes. This is not a new idea, but it's something that I try to keep in mind, especially when I am training others. A lot of times people will call me up and they're like, "Okay. Yes, we want LGBTQ competency. Let's get that going." And that's wonderful. And at the same time, competency implies a mastering of the information, that you know everything you'll ever get to know and you're an expert.

I approached the material with a lot of humility. I think that helps me remember that I'm always learning. And I think as an academic medical institution, that a lot of people would say that that sits right with them, that feels right, because we're always learning. I love saying this to whoever I'm with or talking to, but "I can study this. I study this all day long. And tonight, I can fall asleep and I will wake up tomorrow morning and there is a word I don't know or a term I've never heard of and I'm okay." And that you all are going to be okay too, because what you need to be able to do is ask in a respectful way, in an affirming way. And in my experience, your patients really open up and share that with you.

Dr Vickers: Yeah. And I can understand how this idea of cultural competency when taken the wrong way can lead to cultural presumptuousness, right? The assumption that you do fully understand when you really don't, because you're making assumptions that may not be valid. And I think it's healthy as you've described it for individuals to take the approach of cultural humility. It's not an excuse to not learn, but it is a principle, I think, to be a continuous learner, to realize that, yes, this may have changed; yes, this is evolved to this and I didn't understand it; yes, it's a community still defining itself and so I have to learn and grow, even though this may have been what I thought two years ago.

And so I fully support that is a principle, that would be good for all of us. And it would also relieve-- I think, it gives a sense of relief that I don't have to know it all, but how I approach it, people are willing to help you learn if your approach is to say, "I don't understand, but help me understand."

Stephanie Perry: Right. Exactly. When I hear you say that, I think about a lot of times I can tell where the question is coming from. If it's coming from a place of genuine curiosity and wanting to understand 100%, your patients pick up on that, your employees pick up on that too.

Dr Vickers: So, as you've advanced your career to move through, what advice would you give someone who feels like they might be being discriminated on for any principals for any reason?

Stephanie Perry: Yeah, I think the first thing I would say is, "I'm listening. I hear you." Validate those feelings. As I think about what I've learned at PFLAG, which is a national organization that does a lot of support, education and advocacy for LGBT families and parents in particular.

But I'll never forget what someone told me and that was, sometimes people don't know what they don't know. As a supervisor and a manager of people, I would really hope that, as UAB has taught me, I hope I'm approachable and that people would be able to let me know if I misstep as a supervisor. So I think that communication's important. And then of course, lastly, if you can't really approach your supervisor with your experience of microaggression, of discrimination, then the UAB Ethics hotline, of course, is always a wonderful, anonymous way to report those things.

Dr Vickers: So, as we come to sort of near the end of this, tell me why pride month is important.

Stephanie Perry: Pride month is important because we know any individual that belongs to any minority, I think it's important that we make space and time to celebrate them. There's a podcast called How To Be a Better Human. It's a lot of fun, but they had this speaker on recently and essentially what she's doing is all about communications. Her name is Celeste Headlee, I believe, but I she said it best. "Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand. We listen with the intent to reply," Stephen Covey said that. And then the same thing is, "If your mouth is open, you're not learning," Buddha, right?

So again, I think now in particular, if you are a cisgender heterosexual, if you are male, if you are white, it's not your time to talk, but it's your time to listen. Really, truly listen. So I'm excited to have this opportunity to share.

Dr Vickers: Good. You spent a lot of time, I think, educating, and I think you've highlighted a lot as you talk to people and as you talk to us. If I were to in some ways think about what you said, you pretty much were very clear, listen and learn, understand that your narrative may not be complete of what you've heard or know.

I think that principle of cultural humility is huge. It's really a valuable one for us to understand. And I do get the sense of, yes, for any community that's often not represented, having a visible and recognition of their struggle and their life is really empowering.

And I want to make sure certainly here at UAB, in the medicine world, that it's an environment where people have a chance to be their best, from any and every walk of life. And obviously, as you said, it's a personal decision about people share who they are and their experiences and their choices in their lives. But it's one for us to make sure that whenever that time is, it's an environment where they feel they have a support for who they are. So I'm appreciative for the work you do and the passion you have and the effort to make sure that the playing field here at UAB is successful for the LGBT community.

Stephanie Perry: Thank you so much.

Dr Vickers: Thank you.