Selected Podcast
Relationships During the Pandemic
Chelsea Wakefield Ph.D., LCSW discusses how the stress of the pandemic is affecting relationships and different ways to cope.
Featured Speaker:
Learn more about Chelsea Wakefield, Ph.D., LCSW
Chelsea Wakefield, Ph.D., LCSW
Chelsea Wakefield, Ph.D., LCSW, is the founding director of the UAMS Couples Center, a program committed to providing excellence in couples therapy. Dr. Wakefield is a nationally recognized psychotherapist, author and educator, who has provided individual, couples and group therapy for the past twenty-one years.Learn more about Chelsea Wakefield, Ph.D., LCSW
Transcription:
Relationships During the Pandemic
Prakash Chandran: This UAMS COVID-19 podcast was recorded on September 16th of 2020. The pandemic has taken a toll on all aspects of life, including romantic relationships. And it's important to understand the dynamics around what's breaking couples apart, and most importantly, the best practices around what keeps them together. We're going to talk about it today with Dr. Chelsea Wakefield, an Associate Professor at the Department of Psychiatry and the Director of the Couple Center at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. This is UAMS Health Talk, the podcast from the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. I'm Prakash Chandran. So Dr. Wakefield, it's great to have you here today. I just wanted to know what exactly are you seeing couples go through right now?
Dr. Wakefield: Couples are going through an amplification of some of the dynamics that have been going on there in their relationships for a long time. So being in such close proximity, without distractions, like going out to movies and restaurants and seeing friends is causing them to really face things in their relationship and they are cooped up and stressed out.
Host: Yeah, I can only imagine. And that amplification that you talked about is frankly, something that my wife and I have seen. You're just spending so much more time together, especially if you have kids at home, everything is just magnified. Can you talk a little bit more about those dynamics and how you've seen people start to cope with that?
Dr. Wakefield: I think it's normal for people to feel irritable right now. And my husband and I were just saying recently that we each need a meltdown pass. We have certain days that are just worse than others in terms of feeling restless and feeling, wanting to run away from home wondering when this will ever end, and just generally feeling irritable, which I think is just it's part of the pandemic. People are just edgy, they're restless, they're irritable. So we need to understand that and not to project it onto our partners. I think it's important to create some sort of psychic space. If you are in a house with a lot of people, you've got to have some time when you can actually get away from the constant interaction. And it's been wonderful to get outside really, really important right now. But as we get into the colder season, one of the things I was doing this morning is I was even putting on the sound of ocean waves because I just so want to go to the beach so we can tap into nature with our imagination. Imagination is very important right now.
Host: Absolutely. And I think one of the things that you're trying to establish here is the feelings that you might be going through of you are in a relationship they're normal. You know, like things are amplified. Things are crazy. And to do things like either walk outside or listen to those ocean waves, to calm yourself down a little bit. You know, I'm curious as to what other things that you're seeing that couples are facing through this time, we've talked about kind of the amplified feelings. Is there anything else that they should kind of be looking out for as they live life through this pandemic?
Dr. Wakefield: They need to be really careful about the stories that they're weaving in their heads, we're human beings, and we are story making creatures. And sometimes what can happen is if you have some bad exchanges with a partner or with a family, and you start to get into a downward spiral and people start to create these narratives of how I can't stand this anymore, this isn't working out, once this thing is over, I'm getting a divorce, things of that sort. So we have to be careful about catastrophic narratives that we're forming when we're having a difficult time.
Host: Absolutely. So let's say that a couple is going through a hard time and they are, you know, crafting the stories that you're talking about and they just don't see a way out of it. You know, what do you recommend for people that are having these types of problems? And when does it make sense to reach out for help?
Dr. Wakefield: It makes sense to reach out for help right now. So many people that come and work with me at the couple centers say to me, gosh, I wish we had done this 10 years ago or seven years ago or 15 years ago. And there is definitely a rise in people seeking both mental health counseling right now, as well as couples therapy. And it's a time when the problems that are underlying the relationship really become quite evident. One of the main problems is that people just have a terrible time talking to each other. People don't understand the basics of either talking or listening deeply. And when I'm working with people, one of the things I always notice is that they don't understand the concept of what I it's very fancy term subjective subjectivities. And what that means is that each person has an inner world and talking back and forth is more like each person being on an Island and saying, reporting from over here, this is what's going on in my world. And the other person saying reporting from over here, this is what's going on in my world. So often we're either projecting about what the other person is thinking or feeling or we're taking personally what the other person is going through.
Host: Yeah. So, you know, I love what you said there, it's never too early to reach out for help. And it's something that's even if you think things are going well in the relationship, I think it's a good checkup for you just to make sure each person is being heard. I'm curious about in terms of like modality or maybe the type of counseling to get, if someone decides to get help, should they seek help individually, or should they go in with their partner?
Dr. Wakefield: You know, it's interesting cause there's actually research that shows that people who go for individual help about their relationships, have a greater chance of becoming divorced. And that is because they're reporting from inside their world and the therapist never seeing the interpersonal interaction. One of the things I learned many years ago is that the person I would see in the relationship was a different person than I would see individually. So it's much better to go to a trained couples therapist and you really need to make sure that this person is trained in some modality of couples therapy because couples therapy is not individual therapy times two, and people who attempt to do it, who don't have some real training in it can actually make things worse.
Host: Okay. That's really good to know. And do you have any resources around where someone might find a trained couples therapist that you're talking about?
Dr. Wakefield: There are several modalities that I really appreciate. One of them is the Gottman Method. One of them is Susan Johnson's Emotion Focused Couple's Therapy. Stan Catkin has PACT, the Pact Model, which is actually there's not a whole lot of people trained in the Midwest, but there are a lot on both coasts. There are other forms of couple therapy that are not that I've listed, but you just should really ask the therapist what their training is. I have my own modality that I've developed over the years called interdynamic couples therapy. And I train people in that modality here in the Midwest, but just make sure that that person has a lot of training in couple’s therapy. Cause it it's really quite a different intervention than individual therapy.
Host: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, one thing that I did want to get to is you know, relationships, people, relationships with children as well. And this is something that I go through right now because I have kids running around and sometimes it's very difficult to get the space that you're talking about or even get getting the space and time to speak with my partner just around maintaining our relationship. So what advice might you give to people like me that have kids and don't have enough time or space to take for ourselves?
Dr. Wakefield: It is really, really hard on families right now because of the proximity and the younger, the kids. The more difficult it is because you can't really sit them down and say, work on this or read this book, or, you know, we'll see you in a half hour. My recommendation is to just really delve into your capacity for compassion. And in terms of the two of you, when you get a chance to connect try to be as present as possible and to listen deeply into what your partner is trying to say, even beneath the words and make a lot of eye contact with your partner. It's interesting, the impact that the pandemic has been having on sexuality. Sometimes it's difficult because people feel so close together that sometimes they have less desire. Sometimes they have more desire because it's a great stress reliever. I think walking as a family, with little kids on bicycles and parents being able to talk side-by-side is a great idea, but again, we're particularly, you know, in places outside of the warm areas of the country, we're heading into colder weather, rainier weather. So that's going to become more difficult. So we structure is very, very helpful in families, particularly if you're homeschooling to really create a structure where you've got school time, and then you've got playtime and you've got break and connection time and really building those, so that there's a rhythm in place. Rhythm is great for kids. It's great for people but just being extremely mindful of carving out some us time for the parents.
Host: Absolutely. And you know, just as we start to close here, I wondered if you had any best practices or resources that you could leave us with that would just help us keep our relationships vital and healthy during this unhealthy period.
Dr. Wakefield: Well, I launched a podcast called Love in the Time of COVID, several months ago, we finished our first season. We have 10 episodes, and it is loaded with information that will be helpful for couples to listen to during this period during this difficult time that we're traveling through.
Host: Well, that is a perfect place to end. I truly appreciate your time today, Dr. Wakefield, this has been hugely informative. That's Dr. Chelsea Wakefield and associate professor at the department of psychiatry and the director of the Couple Center at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. Thanks for checking out this episode of UAMS Health Talk. For more information on this topic and to access the resources mentioned, visit UAMShealth.com. There's also that awesome podcast, Dr. Wakefield, Love in the Time of COVID, which you can find on iTunes. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the entire podcast library for topics of interest to you. Thanks, and we'll talk next time.
Relationships During the Pandemic
Prakash Chandran: This UAMS COVID-19 podcast was recorded on September 16th of 2020. The pandemic has taken a toll on all aspects of life, including romantic relationships. And it's important to understand the dynamics around what's breaking couples apart, and most importantly, the best practices around what keeps them together. We're going to talk about it today with Dr. Chelsea Wakefield, an Associate Professor at the Department of Psychiatry and the Director of the Couple Center at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. This is UAMS Health Talk, the podcast from the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. I'm Prakash Chandran. So Dr. Wakefield, it's great to have you here today. I just wanted to know what exactly are you seeing couples go through right now?
Dr. Wakefield: Couples are going through an amplification of some of the dynamics that have been going on there in their relationships for a long time. So being in such close proximity, without distractions, like going out to movies and restaurants and seeing friends is causing them to really face things in their relationship and they are cooped up and stressed out.
Host: Yeah, I can only imagine. And that amplification that you talked about is frankly, something that my wife and I have seen. You're just spending so much more time together, especially if you have kids at home, everything is just magnified. Can you talk a little bit more about those dynamics and how you've seen people start to cope with that?
Dr. Wakefield: I think it's normal for people to feel irritable right now. And my husband and I were just saying recently that we each need a meltdown pass. We have certain days that are just worse than others in terms of feeling restless and feeling, wanting to run away from home wondering when this will ever end, and just generally feeling irritable, which I think is just it's part of the pandemic. People are just edgy, they're restless, they're irritable. So we need to understand that and not to project it onto our partners. I think it's important to create some sort of psychic space. If you are in a house with a lot of people, you've got to have some time when you can actually get away from the constant interaction. And it's been wonderful to get outside really, really important right now. But as we get into the colder season, one of the things I was doing this morning is I was even putting on the sound of ocean waves because I just so want to go to the beach so we can tap into nature with our imagination. Imagination is very important right now.
Host: Absolutely. And I think one of the things that you're trying to establish here is the feelings that you might be going through of you are in a relationship they're normal. You know, like things are amplified. Things are crazy. And to do things like either walk outside or listen to those ocean waves, to calm yourself down a little bit. You know, I'm curious as to what other things that you're seeing that couples are facing through this time, we've talked about kind of the amplified feelings. Is there anything else that they should kind of be looking out for as they live life through this pandemic?
Dr. Wakefield: They need to be really careful about the stories that they're weaving in their heads, we're human beings, and we are story making creatures. And sometimes what can happen is if you have some bad exchanges with a partner or with a family, and you start to get into a downward spiral and people start to create these narratives of how I can't stand this anymore, this isn't working out, once this thing is over, I'm getting a divorce, things of that sort. So we have to be careful about catastrophic narratives that we're forming when we're having a difficult time.
Host: Absolutely. So let's say that a couple is going through a hard time and they are, you know, crafting the stories that you're talking about and they just don't see a way out of it. You know, what do you recommend for people that are having these types of problems? And when does it make sense to reach out for help?
Dr. Wakefield: It makes sense to reach out for help right now. So many people that come and work with me at the couple centers say to me, gosh, I wish we had done this 10 years ago or seven years ago or 15 years ago. And there is definitely a rise in people seeking both mental health counseling right now, as well as couples therapy. And it's a time when the problems that are underlying the relationship really become quite evident. One of the main problems is that people just have a terrible time talking to each other. People don't understand the basics of either talking or listening deeply. And when I'm working with people, one of the things I always notice is that they don't understand the concept of what I it's very fancy term subjective subjectivities. And what that means is that each person has an inner world and talking back and forth is more like each person being on an Island and saying, reporting from over here, this is what's going on in my world. And the other person saying reporting from over here, this is what's going on in my world. So often we're either projecting about what the other person is thinking or feeling or we're taking personally what the other person is going through.
Host: Yeah. So, you know, I love what you said there, it's never too early to reach out for help. And it's something that's even if you think things are going well in the relationship, I think it's a good checkup for you just to make sure each person is being heard. I'm curious about in terms of like modality or maybe the type of counseling to get, if someone decides to get help, should they seek help individually, or should they go in with their partner?
Dr. Wakefield: You know, it's interesting cause there's actually research that shows that people who go for individual help about their relationships, have a greater chance of becoming divorced. And that is because they're reporting from inside their world and the therapist never seeing the interpersonal interaction. One of the things I learned many years ago is that the person I would see in the relationship was a different person than I would see individually. So it's much better to go to a trained couples therapist and you really need to make sure that this person is trained in some modality of couples therapy because couples therapy is not individual therapy times two, and people who attempt to do it, who don't have some real training in it can actually make things worse.
Host: Okay. That's really good to know. And do you have any resources around where someone might find a trained couples therapist that you're talking about?
Dr. Wakefield: There are several modalities that I really appreciate. One of them is the Gottman Method. One of them is Susan Johnson's Emotion Focused Couple's Therapy. Stan Catkin has PACT, the Pact Model, which is actually there's not a whole lot of people trained in the Midwest, but there are a lot on both coasts. There are other forms of couple therapy that are not that I've listed, but you just should really ask the therapist what their training is. I have my own modality that I've developed over the years called interdynamic couples therapy. And I train people in that modality here in the Midwest, but just make sure that that person has a lot of training in couple’s therapy. Cause it it's really quite a different intervention than individual therapy.
Host: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, one thing that I did want to get to is you know, relationships, people, relationships with children as well. And this is something that I go through right now because I have kids running around and sometimes it's very difficult to get the space that you're talking about or even get getting the space and time to speak with my partner just around maintaining our relationship. So what advice might you give to people like me that have kids and don't have enough time or space to take for ourselves?
Dr. Wakefield: It is really, really hard on families right now because of the proximity and the younger, the kids. The more difficult it is because you can't really sit them down and say, work on this or read this book, or, you know, we'll see you in a half hour. My recommendation is to just really delve into your capacity for compassion. And in terms of the two of you, when you get a chance to connect try to be as present as possible and to listen deeply into what your partner is trying to say, even beneath the words and make a lot of eye contact with your partner. It's interesting, the impact that the pandemic has been having on sexuality. Sometimes it's difficult because people feel so close together that sometimes they have less desire. Sometimes they have more desire because it's a great stress reliever. I think walking as a family, with little kids on bicycles and parents being able to talk side-by-side is a great idea, but again, we're particularly, you know, in places outside of the warm areas of the country, we're heading into colder weather, rainier weather. So that's going to become more difficult. So we structure is very, very helpful in families, particularly if you're homeschooling to really create a structure where you've got school time, and then you've got playtime and you've got break and connection time and really building those, so that there's a rhythm in place. Rhythm is great for kids. It's great for people but just being extremely mindful of carving out some us time for the parents.
Host: Absolutely. And you know, just as we start to close here, I wondered if you had any best practices or resources that you could leave us with that would just help us keep our relationships vital and healthy during this unhealthy period.
Dr. Wakefield: Well, I launched a podcast called Love in the Time of COVID, several months ago, we finished our first season. We have 10 episodes, and it is loaded with information that will be helpful for couples to listen to during this period during this difficult time that we're traveling through.
Host: Well, that is a perfect place to end. I truly appreciate your time today, Dr. Wakefield, this has been hugely informative. That's Dr. Chelsea Wakefield and associate professor at the department of psychiatry and the director of the Couple Center at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. Thanks for checking out this episode of UAMS Health Talk. For more information on this topic and to access the resources mentioned, visit UAMShealth.com. There's also that awesome podcast, Dr. Wakefield, Love in the Time of COVID, which you can find on iTunes. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the entire podcast library for topics of interest to you. Thanks, and we'll talk next time.