Joey Wahler (Host): It's a practice that started in China some 3000 years ago. It is used to treat both physical and mental medical conditions. So, we're discussing acupuncture at UK HealthCare. Our guests, Dennis Kim and Norah Charles, both are licensed acupuncturists with UK HealthCare Integrative Medicine and Health.

Host: This is UK HealthCast, a podcast from UK HealthCare. Thanks for listening. I'm Joey Wahler. Dennis and Norah, hi there. Thanks for joining us.

Norah Charles: Hi.

Dennis Kim: Hi, Joey. How's it going?

Host: Good. Yourself?

Dennis Kim: Doing great. Thank you for having us today.

Host: Well, great to have you with us. So first, for you, Dennis, what exactly, for those that aren't familiar, in a nutshell is acupuncture?

Dennis Kim: Acupuncture is a form of technique. It involves the insertion of needles on specific acupuncture points. In Eastern terminology, what that does is, along the meridians, it helps stimulate the flow of chi, which is the life force. But in Western terminology, the way I like to describe it to patients is that it helps send nerve fibers to the spinal cord, brainstem, the hypothalamus and pituitary gland, which helps release neurotransmitters such as endorphins, which is the body's natural painkiller, along with enkephalins plus norepinephrine, which helps inhibit the nerve pain fibers to suppress pain.

Host: Gotcha. And for you, Norah, having said that on Dennis's end, he explained from a practical standpoint why this all works, why is it considered good medical practice?

Norah Charles: Yes. One of the amazing things about acupuncture is that it's non-medication, right? So if someone is having a condition that is not responding, multi-medication, they're not recovering fully with physical therapy or other kinds of therapy, acupuncture, because it has a slightly different view of how the body works, we're sometimes able to make progress with patients that might be stuck in their healing process. We find that we get a lot of referrals from medical doctors who are trying to help patients, mostly with acute and chronic pain, find alternatives to medication. And that's really the number one referral that we'll get to our office.

Host: Understood. And so Dennis, what conditions does acupuncture treat, particularly the ones you most commonly deal with?

Dennis Kim: The most common ones that we do see here in our clinic are musculoskeletal issues, which involves conditions such as fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, carpal tunnel, arthritis. But overall, the beauty of acupuncture, because we can treat a plethora of conditions, which can also involve psychoemotional issues, plus neuromuscular issues as well. But a lot of the common ones that we do see here in our clinic involve neck pain, low back pain, any type of musculoskeletal issues.

Host: And Dennis, just to follow up on that, and I had touched on it at the top, again, this is something, acupuncture, that treats the mental as well as the physical. Maybe tell us just a little bit more please about some of the mental issues people have that can be helped by an acupuncturist.

Dennis Kim: Of course. So in today's day and age, we see a lot of people dealing with stress and depression resonating in people, and what acupuncture helps do is it helps release natural chemicals such as serotonin and dopamine, which helps reduce the stress and uplifts the mood. So, any type of psycho-emotional issues related to that, also, bipolar issues, schizophrenia, we see those are the conditions that acupuncture can help treat. And with the acupuncture, we also utilize something called auricular acupuncture, which involves needling certain points in the ear, which is very strong and stimulating to help with the psycho-emotional issues.

Host: Interesting. Okay. So obviously, a wide range of uses for this. So, Norah, can you take us through a typical visit to an acupuncturist? What can patients expect?

Norah Charles: Sure. So, patients can expect when they go to an acupuncturist, the first part of that session, involves asking a lot of questions of the patient. So, patients usually come in with a primary complaint and we ask for the details about what brought them into the clinic. But then, we go through questions involving other aspects of their health. It could be health history, body systems, things like: How's your sleep? How is your digestion? How's your mood? And the reason that we do that is because it helps us develop a better diagnosis from the acupuncture perspective.

But then, what a lot of people don't realize is we can treat multiple conditions at once. So if somebody comes in with insomnia and also low back pain, those do not need to be separate treatments. So, we spend time talking with the patient at the beginning of the session to get an idea of what's going on with them in a whole health manner. And then, we give them the acupuncture session. They will lie on the table for about 20 to 30 minutes with the needles in, and then that's it. And then, we schedule followup sessions.

Acupuncture is cumulative in its benefits. So for example, if somebody comes in with low back pain, we would explain that the low back pain, they may notice relief after one session, but they will notice increased relief after more sessions. Everybody's body's different and it depends on the condition, but we ask patients to give acupuncture three sessions to see if we can make any headway with their condition.

Host: Sure. So Dennis, how about the surroundings during a treatment? Is it private and can you be on your phone or maybe using earplugs, listening to music or something to pass the time? Or do you need to be locked in doing absolutely nothing? What's the patient up to during all this?

Dennis Kim: That's a very good question. So, it really depends on the patient. A lot of patients who do suffer from anxiety, for instance, with needle phobia, they might want to just distract their minds while they're getting treatment. So, they could be listening to a podcast or they could just be listening to their favorite music. So a lot of my patients, they have their phone turned on on their side, just listening to whatever they like. But I typically recommend not to be actually on their phones, like scrolling through their phones, because most of the time they'll have needles in their hands or their arms, and we want to prevent any of the needles from falling out during a treatment session. So if possible, I tell them, "Stay off your phones. Avoid the screen. Just rest and relax. But if you like, you can have a podcast or radio on the side."

Host: Gotcha. And speaking of needles, Norah, let me ask you this, which I'm guessing could very well be the most commonly asked question both of you get since needles are involved, I would imagine many wonder does acupuncture hurt.

Norah Charles: Yes, that is the number one question we receive. Acupuncture does not hurt. The needles that we use for acupuncture treatments are very small, they're very thin, they're about the size of a hair. These needles, they're designed to be as painless as possible. When the needle goes in, you can expect a little bit of a sting, kind of like a bee sting. But that sensation will go away. If that sensation doesn't go away, then as the acupuncturist, we have a few options. We can move the needle a little bit. We can take it out a little bit. We can take it out completely. We ask for feedback from the patients a lot of in terms of comfort. Because, you know, if you have needles in and you need to lie there for 30 minutes, you need to be able to forget about them. So, we try to make sure that patients feel comfortable every step of the way. Some people do have a lot of needle phobia. I ask all new patients, "How do you feel about needles? How do you feel being here? Is there anything you want me to know before we start?" Usually, if the acupuncturist and the patient have good communication, if the patient having discomfort, they'll be able to tell the acupuncturist and we'll fix it right away.

Host: So Dennis, Norah had mentioned earlier that you guys typically recommend someone come for at least three treatments to give it a chance and see where to go from there. Is it possible to say how often someone typically needs to be treated? Do most people wind up coming on an ongoing basis?

Dennis Kim: It really varies on a patient basis. But typically, we recommend patients come in in between about two to three weeks after their first treatment session because we're trying to build momentum on what we are working on. And if we go longer than, say a month or five weeks out in between treatment sessions, we start losing momentum. So, two to three weeks would be the ideal timeframe. But also based on how many treatments a patient might need, it will really vary based on the condition. If it's a condition where it's more acute and the patient might be on the younger side, then we'll start seeing results faster. Whereas opposed to if it's the chronic conditions, it might take three or more sessions to start seeing some results. And of course, with acupuncture such as with any other modality, it may or may not be right for the person. So, we will reevaluate after the third treatment session.

Host: And finally for you, Norah, once treatment has taken hold, if you will, as we've discussed, what results can people typically expect and how long does that usually take?

Norah Charles: People can expect to feel more relaxed. We sometimes joke and say that relaxation is the side effect of acupuncture. And you can imagine if people start to feel relaxed, a lot of things that are going on in their body become easier to manage. So if you have a decrease in anxiety and discomfort along with decreases in pain, that's a really wonderful combination. And actually, I explain that I expect them to feel clear after an acupuncture session. They have energy, but not too much energy, it's the right amount of energy and clarity of mind. For example, we treat brain fog a lot, so a great side effect of acupuncture is helping with brain fog.

In terms of how long the treatments last, let's say somebody has done a course of treatment and they feel like, "Okay, I don't need to come in for a while" and we agree with that as the practitioner, what we would say to the patient is, "If these symptoms start to return, call us right away." Because if we're able to intervene before the symptoms become really bad again, the course of treatment is much shorter. For that reason, some people who have chronic pain might be on an every five-week schedule. They just know if they get acupuncture every five weeks, they will feel better. But it is definitely dependent on the person and the condition that we're treating.

Host: Well, you mentioned relaxation, clarity, and less brain fog, I'm sure that's something many people can benefit from. Folks, we trust you are now more familiar with acupuncture at UK HealthCare. Dennis Kim and Norah Charles, very good information for those especially unfamiliar with acupuncture. Thanks so much again.

Norah Charles: Thank you

Dennis Kim: Thank you for having us.

Host: Absolutely. Thanks for being here again. And for more information, folks, please visit ukhealthcare.uky.edu. Again, ukhealthcare.uky.edu. Now, if you found this podcast helpful, please do share it on your social media and thanks again for listening to UK HealthCast, a podcast from UK HealthCare. Hoping your health is good health. I'm Joey Wahler.