Caitlin Whyte (Host): Welcome to In Their Words, the podcast from the UPMC Pinnacle Foundation and UPMC in Central PA, where we share the real stories behind life-changing medical care. Today we have an extraordinary story of family, faith and the gift of life itself.

When David White's kidney function began declining, he faced the daunting prospect of dialysis and an uncertain wait for a transplant. What he didn't expect was that his match would come from within his own family. Today we are joined by David and his son-in-law, Ray Chung, who four years ago embarked on a journey that would change both their lives forever.

This is a story about the power of generosity, the strength of family bonds, and the incredible medical expertise that makes miracles possible right here in Central Pennsylvania.

David White: Well, my full name's David White and I live here in Dillsburg, as does Ray a little ways away from us. We've been here since we retired from work. Both my wife and I retired on the same day and moved out here. Well, it's going on nine years now, to the Dillsburg area. We originally lived in northern New Jersey. Other than that, I, guess just being retired is the key to it out here. Grandchildren are here. That's how we ended up here.

Ray Chung: My name is Ray, last name Chung. I grew up in Malaysia. Came to the US in 2001 to Messiah University. That's where I met my wife, Heather. And yeah, we've got three kids. Micah is 14. We have Delia. She is 11, and then Eden, she is eight. And yeah, we live in Dillsburg. And, yeah, happy, just excited for the summer and, appreciated a lot of, just even being in this area, experiencing the different seasons and, yeah, here we are with, uh, three kids.

David White: Yes, Ray met my daughter, who is his wife, Heather, at Messiah. Well, both my son and my daughter went to Messiah and also my daughter-in-law went to Messiah as Ray did. So everybody in the family went to Messiah.

I would say probably, oh, a good two to three years before, my numbers were constantly going down as far as my kidney function when we lived in New Jersey. They started getting worried about it and they looked into it. They did many tests back there and could not really come up with any reason as to why.

But when I got out here, probably the year or two before the actual transplant, yeah, I would sleep probably close to a good nine, 10 hours a night, and yet after lunch, one o'clock, 1:30, something like that, I would take an hour nap because I was tired. Didn't realize that, that's what was happening with the kidney not functioning properly. So it just became a usual thing for me. I automatically have lunch and then take my nap for the afternoon.

Actually, when I first came out here, I was not going to a UPMC doctor. He moved to York. And he put me in touch with a doctor up here in Camp Hill with Dr. Shaw. And that's who my new doctor was, when things started really getting serious. We were watching it with this first doctor. I came out here and the numbers just gradually kept getting worse and worse as far as my GFR and all that.

So the new doctor, Dr. Shaw, I probably was only seeing him maybe a little over a year and something, but it was coming down to the point where he said, you've gotta get on a transplant list. Then we were starting to talk about going on dialysis. So that's how it ended up, and from there it moved rather quickly.

Uh, to me it did, the summer of like, June. Yeah, I would say it was June of 2020. That's when they started testing me see if I was a candidate, to be even on the transplant list. And it was a lot of testing. I went through a lot of things, things that I hadn't had to ever done before. Stress tests, things like that, and they did all kinds of blood work and, stuff like that. But, by the end of June, that's when we knew we could actually be put on a transplant list and that I should start looking for a donor, on my own, also.

Host: David's journey from fatigue and declining kidney function to needing a transplant happened gradually, then all at once. as his numbers worsened and dialysis loomed, the race was on to find a matching donor.

What started with Facebook posts and church announcements would lead to an unexpected answer, much closer to home. The testing process for both recipient and donor is rigorous and for good reason. As you'll hear, Ray's decision to donate wasn't made lightly, and the emotional complexity of having a family member as a donor added layers that few transplant patients experience.

David White: Well, I originally started out by actually putting things out, I um, of course had a Facebook page. I actually put out a request on there that I was in need of a kidney. And, I put out my, what my blood type was and had to be a match to that or very close to it. I put it in our church, different places in the church, different things like that. And, also then started testing relatives that I had. Now that was interesting.

My own son, could not be a match. It was different ones were coming up and was not being able to be a match for me. That was getting kind of stressful, gee, how long am I going to be on this transplant? And it actually came down to the point where we were one week away of setting up the equipment for,

dialysis, when I found out that I possibly had a match. And you're speaking to the other guy. It was my match, which just blew me away.

Ray Chung: Yeah, for me, you heard that it was earlier in June that it was notified and started some of this process. Heather and I, my wife and I, we made our first, so, the numbers started looking rough in kind of the June timeframe. We heard about it probably at the middle to the end of summer. So probably around August. So we came back from our summer vacation. So around August, 2020 was when my wife and I both made the initial contact, with the transplant team.

And it was just a whole series of stuff and I appreciated the rigor of the steps and the seriousness, the care that it took, like, so the consent call, the health intake process, the lab work, on all the different testings and so on and so forth, the EKG, before it's even approved and obviously on our side, Heather and I were both also really prayerful about the whole process.

And we didn't want to share any of our process and journey before even knowing what would happen. So my first initial contact with UPMC was August, but it probably wasn't until October, when it was approved, from UPMC that I was approved, that we shared the news, with Dave and my mother-in-law, Lois.

I don't know, Dave, if you remember, the evening that you and mom came over to our house and, you just kind of had the conversation. That was also for me, like a defining moment that, you know, it was both, yes, while you, you know, needed a kidney, but it was also a, Hey, are you sure you want to do this? Do you want to talk about that evening? Do you remember that?

David White: Yeah, I do remember that. It comes flooding back to me in different parts now when I think about it. But yeah, we had a great concern that, okay, Ray has three kids, he's gotta think about his own future. And, we were, it was a hard position to be in because I knew I needed a kidney, but then, and Ray was a, almost a perfect match as far as the numbers went.

And we just, looked at each other, we talked about it, we prayed about it for a long time when we've heard that he was possibly going to be a match. And, it just, it's something that someone's donating. It's gotta be thought out quite thoroughly. You can't just jump into it and say, oh, well I'll worry about that later.

You had to think about what, would be in the future. But, it's just something that, we were a little stressed about it, to say the least.

Ray Chung: Yeah. And for me, I think I remember, you know, obviously, there were a lot of tears that evening, as we just kind of talked through that and understand the significance of the conversation.

But it wasn't one that I went into it lightly, like through all the testings in the preceding months, I was able to do a bunch of research myself. And so for example, I had never intended, or even thought much about organ donation. But in my research process, I thought I read about and just looked into that living donor, was reported to have 97% success rate at a one year mark and 86% at a five year mark.

So as I kind of thought through this and worked through it, and, even thinking about at any given time, there's a hundred thousand people waiting for lifesaving organ transplants in the US alone and, with a high percentage of that specifically for kidney. And, I've always sought to take seriously convictions of like, what does it mean to be a good steward? What does it mean to be generous? And, from everything that I've read and researched, both on organ donation, and the care afterwards, both for the recipients and the donor, for me, it very quickly became a no brainer that we, through the way that we are designed as humans, can live really well functioning life, with one kidney.

And so, I didn't see in some ways like, wow, what a heroic or noble thing that you're doing. I saw that it was a real need, right within my realm, and that's something that I am able to be part of yeah, supporting, and being part of helping.

And so it was very much a quick, not, flippant, but like, yeah, it made sense and, obviously discussed it through with my wife Heather. And, that evening was a real defining moment where, we kind of collectively said yeah, what a joy. What a joy to be able to step into this opportunity to serve, and honored to do so.

And just to backtrack, I don't take it for granted, how on earth that, I grew up in Malaysia and through all the different, whether it's blood type to size of kidney, to the health of the kidney functioning, that this is a match.

And so, truly just grateful for the opportunity to be able to have this experience and be part of my father-in-law's journey.

Host: After months of testing and careful consideration, Ray was approved as David's donor in October, 2020, but as they would soon learn, having a match was just the beginning. The COVID-19 pandemic would test their patience and resolve as their surgery was canceled, not once, not twice, but three times. When March 30th, 2021 finally arrived, both men walked into UPMC, Harrisburg knowing their lives would be forever changed. What happened next showcases not just the remarkable skill of the transplant team, but the small gestures of compassion that make all the difference during life's most vulnerable moments.

David White: Well, I'll jump in here. The transplant center team was, they were just fantastic, right down from the person that I met first, we met first that was the pre-operation set up everything for us and the different doctors. We met them several times and it just was amazing how they could keep everything together and they knew.

And I have with UPMC, of course I have portal. And I mean, I could look at results almost immediately after it was done there. It was just amazing that they would, have that much control over everything that quickly and all the information they gave us was, it put, my wife and I at ease. It seemed, I'll say this, it seemed after we realized that Ray was going to be my donor, I had kind of a peace of it, you know, with the whole thing. Before that I'd tell you I was scared. I didn't know what was going to be the results. I knew my numbers were getting worse and worse. And when we started with doctors, like Dr. Chang and, Dr. Lady. and, was the other doctor, uh, I will forget his name, Ray will probably remember it.

Dr. Menon. That's right. That basically was one of the ones doing my surgery when it did happen. But just I mean, there was Dr. Hoffman who was a nephrologist that was there that would over all my blood results each time and, they would sometimes say, well, we want this a little bit higher, or, lower this, that, it just was amazing how they kept it all together and, any phone call I made in that, I, you know, we had a concern, they were on top of it. You either got an answer immediately or they called you back in about 10 minutes. It was just amazing.

Ray Chung:  other thing I would add is, keeping in mind during that time, so when we were initially scheduled, it was November, 2020. And as you may recall, that was at the onset of COVID. So our actual surgery, was actually canceled three times, upon having scheduled like, so it was scheduled, but it was canceled because of COVID emergency situations only, or so and so forth. So it was rescheduled three times, which made it, challenging, to just kind of keep in the waiting process.

But back to your question on being provider, I don't know if you can see, I have this folder, that has all these notes, just from different people. Majority of these are staffers, Dr. Danielle Lady. These are the nurses on staff. So just really kind, and very encouraging and they put together, because I wanted to get a sense on like what happened in the surgery because, you I was totally out so it showed like Dr. Menon and Dr. Lady, in this photo, like they are operating on the kidney. Right. Like, so again, just to put it in perspective, my surgery was, I think we both checked in at the same time, in Harrisburg, at the hospital that we drive by, I don't know, several times a month.

So we both checked in together. I was around 6, 6:30, and then his surgery was around wait, 8:30 or nine. So again, just to think about miracle, right? Like the technology, the advancement, the care where healthcare really advancement and such that like, they are able to take it out of me, at 6, 6:30, give it a good scrub, clean it up, and then put it into Dave in at 9, 9:30.

And by 11, 11:30, it's done. And so, just thinking about that and just, you talked about specific people. March 30th is actually my daughter's birthday. So, I told our daughter Delia, that like, Hey, sorry that Dad won't be able to be with you on your birthday. And she understood. So, they were so kind to give my daughter Delia, an extra kidney as an extra birthday gift.

And I say that to say, you know, these are the little gestures of even comforting, my family. That means a great deal to me while my father-in-law and I are, getting "checked in", that very morning. And so, yeah, like, again, some of the subtleties, I was asking innocently like, you do you decide which kidney to give Dave?

And they says, well, you are keeping the stronger kidney. I'm like, huh, really? And they says, yeah, that's our commitment to our donor. Now you have two really healthy kidneys, but, as for our donor perspective, we want to ensure that you have a strong kidney. So again, I don't think about those things.

And there are times, there are days that like different thoughts run through my head, right? Like, happens if this, and this? So one of which is what happens if I do wound up needing a kidney sometimes down the road? And at least what they indicated and I've learned is that like, no, you'll be on the top of the list as a kidney donor.

And these are things that I have never thought about prior to that. Just again, the care and the even as I indicated, e ach time the surgery date is rescheduled, they redid all the testings.

Now it's annoying because I hate getting blood drawn and, you know, but, it shows the level of rigor that they go through to make sure that everything is set, and well. And so Jackie, she, I believe is on the donor care support team. I forget her actual title. Or, Amy, who's a social social worker on the transplant team.

Like, they just kept really, really good in touch, with me. Dr. Lady even called me personally, during, again, those were during the COVID season. She says, just to check in, like, how are you doing through all this when, the transplant was being canceled. So, you know, just so, so, so appreciate all the different team members, both from the social work side to the, donor support side, intake side to, the actual surgeons.

David White: I don't know if Ray remembers this. One of the times it was canceled was because of shooting myself in the foot. I actually had moh's surgery for skin cancer in my ear in February. That was one of the reasons it was canceled.

They had done the surgery, and if I were to describe that surgery, which probably sounded worse than doing the transplant, but they, actually had to take a, fairly big divot out of the, the flap of the top of my left ear. And they actually took extra skin down at the bottom of my ear and had it started growing it to fill in the hole.

And that was the early beginning of February. Well, towards the middle to the end of February, Dr. Chang, took a look at it and he says, I think I want that to heal a little more than it is. So that was one of the times that we got set back on the surgery. We were actually looking at a date and, he took a look at it and he says, I think I want another couple of weeks for that to heal more.

So, yeah, each time with the COVID, it was frustrating. It was, you know, you get yourself all, I won't say worked up, but you get yourself already prepared. You think it's gonna happen and you know, a couple days or a day before the surgery, they say, we think we're gonna cancel it because COVID is just too rampant.

Ray Chung: I was approved October 1st, 2020. Surgery was March 30th, 2021.

David White: Well, I, say, I can remember that morning. We both parked on the same level of the parking garage and we were walking in together and we got checked into the surgery waiting room where they, they hold you. Ray was over in one curtained off room. I was over in another and we could hear each other talking, but you get nervous, you're waiting, you're waiting. And the next thing I heard them say, well, Ray's going, I says, uhoh, you know, that gives you a little more of a shock to yourself saying, uhoh, then I'm next. You know? And it just, it was exciting. But it, of course there was always you're nervous, you're worried that something will spring up.

But, I think God had his hand on it, and I just think that, that's what gave me most of my calmness.

Ray Chung: Yeah, I was thinking a lot about my wife and my kids, we can't control what we can't control. But with all the information and the prep work we've done. Again, UPMC has a strong reputation, and so it wasn't anything that it's "irresponsible". So I think are there nerves, of course, yet, I think about when we encourage our kids to be kind, be generous, be helpful, be caring, be loving. Yeah, like that was that sense of peace that says, look we are doing this, and that's that, and just a sense of surrendered, and believing that God will do what God will do.

That was mostly it and then just really entrusting then the rest of it into the hands of the providers, the healthcare providers, the surgeons and the support team that's associated with it. Again, I'm kind of clueless in all of this. So I was told to wait where it was and to what Dave says, like, okay, it is time to roll.

And so I was rolled to the operating room. And it really was just a really, really fast process in that, I knew that, was being rolled in. I saw that I was in the operating room. They put this mask thing on me. I guess it has all the drugs that makes you faint or makes you pass out.

And all that lasted less than like five minutes, or less even. And then I just woke up, which surgery was over. So I had zero memories at all from, whole thing other than like, I was rolled in, I, I remember them putting the mask on me. And then next thing you know, I was being woken up and it took me a while, just feeling really groggy of like, wait, what just happened?

Where am I again? And they told me it's over and it's done and it's successful. And so yeah, it felt zero pain and it just went by really, really quickly and felt surreal if anything.

Host: The surgery itself was just the beginning of a new chapter for both David and Ray. Recovery brought its own challenges and surprises from David being able to feel the energy from his new kidney, to Ray's remarkably quick return to walking the hospital halls, but perhaps the most profound changes weren't physical at all.

Four years later, as these two men reflect on their shared experience, it's clear that this journey has shaped not just their health, but their perspective on life, service and what it truly means to be family.

David White: Well, I woke up. I was in the ICU room. Gee, what can I say? I just like Ray says, you just woke up and I'm looking around and I'm thinking to myself, wow, did that really happen? That I'm sitting here now recovering, I have a new kidney. The pain wasn't bad because naturally they had you on a pain medication. And told me, they said if everything continues as it is, they'll probably, you know, transfer me out of that by the next morning to a regular room to recover.

Now, it just so happened that, my son came to visit me and he came in, they let him in the ICU room and just outta coincidence, it actually, he's a teacher over at Redland High School. And it was one of his former students that was actually the male nurse that was working on me, t hat was my main provider while I was in there.

He had me the whole day after the surgery. So they're striking up the conversation, talking. I'm only catching parts of it, of their conversation because they were reminiscing and everything. And I'm just sitting there saying, I don't care. I got a new kidney. That's all I'm worried about. But it was interesting that, that happened.

And then, the pain, the pain part is funny, we were talking about this Ray will remember yesterday we actually had dinner together with my son and his family, and we were talking about that, the amount of difference in pain. Mine was not that bad. I did take pain medication up until the morning we left, both left on Friday. The operations were done on Tuesday. We left on Friday to go home. From there on, I didn't take any pain medication at all for this surgery. It was kind of unique where they placed the kidney in me. It's down to my right side actually from my waist belt, waist down into that space, as you might say, is where my kidney is.

And it was kind of unique because at that point I had, gee, I was down to about a hundred forty, a hundred forty five pounds, and I could feel the tip of the kidney through the skin because I was kind of thin. And it just amazed me that now this, is where the kidney is sitting. And again, the nurses were unbelievable in the hospital.

Just the care. They, they, you know, would come in and ask, how are you feeling? Do you how was your pain level? Do you think you need to take anything more? It was just amazing to me you know, and they kept us on, like, I had to be on a special floor. They only had one floor because of the COVID.

They only had one floor that they kept people with transplants, with any kind of surgery where it was more critical to keep a safe environment.

Ray Chung: I'm a checklist kind of person, so like they had very specific kind of plan that they gave that just helped me just, uh prepare and, follow almost like a timeline on like, Hey, this is what happens right after the surgery. This is what happens the day following. This is what happens to be discharged two to three days after. And, here's what happens with your pain medicine. So those were all helpful.

That again, just feeling a bit more equipped and, know what to expect, in the day after surgery was done to like two weeks after, I've just appreciated, how supported I felt. I think they had very clear plans, whether it's once a week for the first month and then like every other month. And then up until this kind of two year mark, in just like, how are you feeling? How are things so and so forth. I remember maybe about six months in, I felt some, pain of sorts. I wasn't sure. And without, hesitating, I called them and just notified them.

They said, just come on in. And they ran a bunch of tests. And so just again, they referring to the transplant team was just super helpful. On the pain management standpoint, I know that the day or really the hours right after the surgery, as Dave was remarking, Heather, my wife says just so you know, dad's feeling really good. He's been walking up and down the hallway and again, that was just, really, really, moving and touching and joyous for me in that like, wow, just to see how quick, that, improvement, is already felt on his part. Yeah, so again, just really, really, was excited and celebrating how quick the impact it has on Dave, immediately right after the surgery.

And, you as you heard earlier, we had dinner yesterday to think about what, four years out now, we get to celebrate Mother's Day as a family together. Over this past, weekend we had dance recital, or, for both my daughters or my son, was running a, two mile race that is able to be part of it and all that I think again, would not have been possible without, this opportunity and the folks that all play a part of it, whether they are on the, intake team side of it, or whether they are the surgeons, or whether they are the, scheduling team or the, medicine, prescribing team. You know, just grateful that we live close by and have the opportunity and the blessing yeah from UPMC,

David White: Well, I have to say that my outlook on life is just, I've been given a new life thanks to Ray. Eventually, okay, I could have lasted on dialysis, who knows how long?

And it just, I'm not putting down anyone who's on dialysis by any means. I, really can appreciate what they have to go through day in, day out. It's not, something easy. And I was spared of that. And it's just now my, life is, I try to do the best I can.

I have done several things to, different places to put out the word that, you know, can donate, that it is not something that's gonna be terrible to your life from then on. It's like Ray has said, it's, you have a good kidney. It's you can run on a good kidney, you might say. It's hard to to gather all the emotions that I have. I don't even know how to say it. It gives me, you know, sometimes like, I think we all do, we forget, what you actually went through with it and you forget the miracle that God gave us between the both of us, Ray, not having any problems afterwards, me having a new kidney.

It just is amazing thing to have happen to you and where I can help now, Ray, Ray does a lot more than I do as far as that, as far as helping people in different organizations and stuff. But anyone I can talk to that, is in the situation that I was in needs a kidney and stuff.

It's just something I can sit and talk with them, which I do. There's been several actually where I have my blood drawn at the UPMC lab here in Dillsburg. There was one of ladies that register you in when you go in for blood work. She had been on dialysis for about seven years now, and three or four weeks ago, she actually got her kidney.

So every time I went in, she would ask me questions and, you know, what happened here? What did that this part play? And she went on and here she ended up getting her kidney. And then one of nurses that does the drawing of blood there, her father was going to get a kidney. And it actually happened within two days of register lady getting her kidney, her father got a kidney from an anonymous donor.

And it's just, it's amazing to me what can happen when people, stop and think the gift of life you've been given from the very beginning. And if you are able to share part of that.

Ray Chung: Yeah, last week, I had a chance to go to Philly, with, about maybe 30, that's organized by, UPMC transplant team to be part of the donor dash, that they run each year.

And I wrote bit of a reflection, from that and I shared it with, some of the UPMC members team. And now I'll just read it to you. To the world, you may be one person, but to one person, you may be the world. Dr. Seuss. Four years ago I walked around with two kidneys, never realizing that donating one would impact not just someone else's life, but mine. Confession, I hate challenges. I avoid pain, and then I run from suffering. But here's what I've learned and am relearning. Behind every challenge is a chance to be a blessing, to share and to serve others. Yes, pain is unpleasant, but often the people who radiate the most kindness and strength are those who endured the hardest storms.

Suffering is uncomfortable, leave scars even, but it is the redemptive way. So that Sunday, I stood among thousands of people at Philadelphia's Donor Dash, some still waiting for the call. Others alive today because one person said yes. So I, want to encourage, you know, I know that there's still quite a bit of education that needs to happen around organ donation.

But yeah, just continue to encourage others and spread the word that it matters and it does save lives. And, we get to be part of making a difference. This is probably my third or fourth one now. For my work, I talk a lot about servant leadership.

I help support leaders and organizations in that regard. And again, I think about sometimes, what does it look like for our values, translating those values into actions. And so what does it look like to, we may not be able to solve all the problems in the world, but to the opportunities that's right before us, how do we respond and, what a joy and honor and a blessing to be able to be a part of supporting and making a difference in the lives of those around us. So I think, going back to the quote from Dr. Seuss, right? Like, we just need to, respond to the person right in front of us and the opportunity in front of us and not feel the need or sense of overwhelm that we need to solve everyone's issues or problems, but we are called to just make a difference in those right in front of us.

David White: I'll just add the one thing to go back to your original thing about me, uh, have to take a nap every day after thing. Probably in four years now I've probably taken maybe five. I haven't had any need for a nap since the transplant.

It just was unbelievable the change, you know, when your health and your energy level and everything, it just, it's hard to believe that it could make that much difference.

Host: David and Ray's story reminds us that behind every medical miracle are real people facing extraordinary choices. From Ray's decision to donate, to the countless UPMC team members who provided exceptional care, to David's commitment to encouraging others facing similar journeys, this is what healthcare at its best looks like. As Ray shared from his reflection, after the Philadelphia Donor Dash; to the world, you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

Thank you to David White and Ray Chung for sharing their incredible story with us today. If this episode moved you, please take a moment to rate and review In Their Words. It helps others discover these important stories.

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and until next time, thank you for listening to In Their Words where every story matters and every voice deserves to be heard.