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Ear Gear and Hearing Health
Dr. Micheal Ferguson discusses hearing health, and how earbuds and headphones can negatively impact your hearing if misused.
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Learn more about Michael Ferguson, MD
Michael Ferguson, MD
Dr. Michael Ferguson is an expert ear nose and throat doctor, with clinical interests ranging from pediatric ear nose and throat (ENT), sinus disease, thyroid surgery and cancers of the head and neck. He loves helping his ear, nose and throat patients of all ages and is also an excellent teacher, and is the recipient of the Kaiser Permanente Excellence in Teaching Award. He is the director of WakeMed Physician Practices' ENT, Head and Neck Surgery Program.Learn more about Michael Ferguson, MD
Transcription:
Ear Gear and Hearing Health
Caitlin Whyte (Host): Earbuds versus over the ear headphones. Most of the time, whatever people wear on their ears is just a matter of preference, but is there a health difference between the two? Well, Dr. Michael Ferguson is going to help us find out. He is the Director of the WakeMed ENT Head and Neck Surgery Department, as well as an Adjunct Associate Professor at UNC School of Medicine. This is WakeMed Voices, a podcast brought to you by WakeMed Health and Hospitals in Raleigh, North Carolina.
I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Let's just start off. What's the debate? What is everyone so worried about?
Michael Ferguson, MD (Guest): The big worry with headphones versus earbuds is there's this concern that because earbuds are worn deeper in the ear that they can create a louder sound for a prolonged period of time, and that can cause potentially hearing loss. Now, the reality is that any prolonged sound at an extreme level, which we can talk about, can cause hearing loss, it's not necessarily that earbuds specifically are the only thing that causes hearing loss and probably a lot of the concern about earbuds versus other noise exposure types can sometimes be a little bit overblown, but still the message is clear that, that we've really increased the use of headphones over the years, either over the ear headphones or earbuds and people are delivering a fairly significant level of sound to their ears for prolonged levels. And so the, the message is, is how do we, how do we safely kind of avoid hearing loss moving forward.
Host: Well, yeah, you touched on it, but what is noise induced hearing loss?
Dr. Ferguson: So noise-induced hearing loss is basically if you listen to loud noises for an extended period of time, the nerve cells that provide the input for hearing to the brain, are really, really sensitive. They're called hair cells and they're extremely sensitive. And if you continue to batter them with loud noise, it can chronically damage those hair cells and eventually cause some hearing loss. So, the best way to think about it is that normal conversation that you and I are having right now is usually at about 60 decibels.
You and I could talk forever at this level and it would never cause any hearing loss. You can even have levels in the 70s that aren't harmful, but anything over 85 decibels is considered too loud to listen to for an extended period of time. And so one way to sort of put it in perspective is the National Institute of Occupational Health and Safety says that in the workplace, you can listen to 85 decibels of noise for eight hours. Okay. And then anything beyond that can cause damage. And then if you three decibel increase is cuts that time in half. And so basically if you go fast forward, if you go all the way, all the way up to 100 decibels, you really can only listen to 100 decibels at about 15 minutes before that causes some hearing damage.
Most portable music players, iPhones, cellphone, you can play your music up to 100 to 110 decibels. So, so you can see how pretty easily you could be generating potential noise induced hearing loss with just the use of your mobile music player.
Host: So back to the headphone debate, you mentioned right from the top that the theory is if earbuds are deeper into your ear, they'll cause more damage. So, is there really a difference between earbud and over the ear headphones?
Dr. Ferguson: There is a difference in terms of how the sound is delivered, because if you are putting essentially a bud that completely occludes the ear canal, then the delivery of sound can be much more concentrated. And so you can potentially get higher levels delivered, but, but really there are actually some other reasons that in the ear headphones can potentially be more worrisome to people than over the ear headphones.
So over their headphones are obviously not sticking down in your ear canal, but if you have earbuds, you continue to repeatedly stick these things in your ear. You're using them at the gym. You're using them when you're exercising, on the bike, all that sort of thing. There is a potential for increased risk of infections or getting ear infections from chronic use of earbuds. If you don't clean 'em and the kids will sometimes share their earbuds, which is a bad idea. And then the other thing is, is that you really can oftentimes drown out a lot of external noise, you know, even in the ear, earbuds now have noise canceling. And so what you find is a good number of cyclists and other and other folks, when they're jogging, they've got their noise canceling effect on.
So, they're cranking their music at, at 100 DBS. They have the noise canceling on and they don't hear a fire engine or they don't a honking horn or, or somebody coming up behind them. And so, yeah, there's, there's risks to using headphones and earbuds, in spite of whether we're talking about just hearing loss or not, if that makes sense.
Host: Can earbuds cause ear infections?
Dr. Ferguson: Yeah. So what I was saying earlier is that what happens if you were in an earbud, but it can trap sort of moisture and wetness in the ear canal. And then, you know, people are in the gym and they're working out and they're hot and sweaty. That's a perfect environment for bacteria and fungus. And so, cause they love these sort of warm, moist, dark areas. And so earbuds can cause potentially up to like a 10 or 11 fold increase in the likelihood of causing ear infections like swimmer's ear, the common kind of what we call the otitis externa so they can. So, that's why wealways say clean your earbuds. Don't share them with other people. Consider if you're using them for exercise, consider just wearing one when you're wearing them so that you still have exposure to external environmental noises.
Host: For some people they say over the ear headphones can be painful. I know for me, I have glasses. So, sometimes there's a lot happening on my ears. How can we avoid that?
Dr. Ferguson: So, with over that year headphones, sometimes you kind of get what you pay for, and if you get cheaper ones that don't fit as well, or put too much pressure on your ears, then it can, like you said, it can cause chronic pain. So, really what you want to do is you want to find an over the ear headphone, that fits well. That's not too tight. That has the nice soft cups that mold around the ear and can, and can decrease pain. I wear glasses too, and I have some over the ear headphones that I wear and, and I bought the really cheap ones and i've bought ones that are a little bit nicer. And by far the nicer ones are more comfortable to wear for sure.
Host: So in your opinion, what is the safest way to use headphones in general?
Dr. Ferguson: So, I think you can kind of, and if you look at some of the literature coming out of the ENT Academy, we basically have five tips for how to use headphones and how to preserve your hearing. Number one, turn it down to such a volume so this you're listening at sounds that are no louder than the 70% of the of the loudest volume. SO keep some from cranking up all the way. Number two, turn it off. Meaning don't listen to persistent loud noise for extended period of times. If you can use over the ear headphones over earbuds, then we do advocate for that. If you can wear noise canceling headphones in a safe environment, even though we talked about being careful about using them when you're cycling and things like that. If you wear noise canceling headphones, then you can oftentimes play your music at a lower volume and still hear it. And then also if you have the ability to, to equalize your sound and you can turn the bass up a little bit, somehow having extra bass makes you feel like you're listening to music a little bit louder, even when you're not. So, all those, all those, all those things sort of train you to not necessarily continue to listen to your headphones too loud.
Host: And you know, kids and teens are notorious for listening to music too loud, playing video games super loud. What can parents do to prevent potential hearing damage in younger kids?
Dr. Ferguson: I think my advice for, for what to do with that again is especially the younger ages if you can encourage them to wear the over the ear headphones at younger ages, that's great. Number two, use the devices at times without headphones. Again, parents are, we're funny creatures. We like our quiet time as well. So, sometimes we make decisions for ourselves that might not be the best decision for your child.
And so sometimes allow the noise to be external so that they're not always wearing headphones. And then like anything else, parents have to regulate what their kids are doing. They have got to keep their eye on the ball. They've got to make sure that if their kid has an iPhone, that the iPhone has a correct level of sound coming through. So, it's not up too high. They have to pay attention to what their kids are doing. And that's really it. It's pretty simple, just manage and pay attention to what your kids are doing. And don't let them do things that you know, are probably not healthy for them. Pretty true across the board.
Host: Well, some great information today, Doctor. Thank you so much for joining us. I know, I wish I listened to music a little lower when I was younger. To learn more about WakeMed's ENT services and locations, please visit wakemed.org. And thank you for listening. I'm Caitlin Whyte with WakeMed Voices brought to you by WakeMed Health and Hospitals in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Ear Gear and Hearing Health
Caitlin Whyte (Host): Earbuds versus over the ear headphones. Most of the time, whatever people wear on their ears is just a matter of preference, but is there a health difference between the two? Well, Dr. Michael Ferguson is going to help us find out. He is the Director of the WakeMed ENT Head and Neck Surgery Department, as well as an Adjunct Associate Professor at UNC School of Medicine. This is WakeMed Voices, a podcast brought to you by WakeMed Health and Hospitals in Raleigh, North Carolina.
I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Let's just start off. What's the debate? What is everyone so worried about?
Michael Ferguson, MD (Guest): The big worry with headphones versus earbuds is there's this concern that because earbuds are worn deeper in the ear that they can create a louder sound for a prolonged period of time, and that can cause potentially hearing loss. Now, the reality is that any prolonged sound at an extreme level, which we can talk about, can cause hearing loss, it's not necessarily that earbuds specifically are the only thing that causes hearing loss and probably a lot of the concern about earbuds versus other noise exposure types can sometimes be a little bit overblown, but still the message is clear that, that we've really increased the use of headphones over the years, either over the ear headphones or earbuds and people are delivering a fairly significant level of sound to their ears for prolonged levels. And so the, the message is, is how do we, how do we safely kind of avoid hearing loss moving forward.
Host: Well, yeah, you touched on it, but what is noise induced hearing loss?
Dr. Ferguson: So noise-induced hearing loss is basically if you listen to loud noises for an extended period of time, the nerve cells that provide the input for hearing to the brain, are really, really sensitive. They're called hair cells and they're extremely sensitive. And if you continue to batter them with loud noise, it can chronically damage those hair cells and eventually cause some hearing loss. So, the best way to think about it is that normal conversation that you and I are having right now is usually at about 60 decibels.
You and I could talk forever at this level and it would never cause any hearing loss. You can even have levels in the 70s that aren't harmful, but anything over 85 decibels is considered too loud to listen to for an extended period of time. And so one way to sort of put it in perspective is the National Institute of Occupational Health and Safety says that in the workplace, you can listen to 85 decibels of noise for eight hours. Okay. And then anything beyond that can cause damage. And then if you three decibel increase is cuts that time in half. And so basically if you go fast forward, if you go all the way, all the way up to 100 decibels, you really can only listen to 100 decibels at about 15 minutes before that causes some hearing damage.
Most portable music players, iPhones, cellphone, you can play your music up to 100 to 110 decibels. So, so you can see how pretty easily you could be generating potential noise induced hearing loss with just the use of your mobile music player.
Host: So back to the headphone debate, you mentioned right from the top that the theory is if earbuds are deeper into your ear, they'll cause more damage. So, is there really a difference between earbud and over the ear headphones?
Dr. Ferguson: There is a difference in terms of how the sound is delivered, because if you are putting essentially a bud that completely occludes the ear canal, then the delivery of sound can be much more concentrated. And so you can potentially get higher levels delivered, but, but really there are actually some other reasons that in the ear headphones can potentially be more worrisome to people than over the ear headphones.
So over their headphones are obviously not sticking down in your ear canal, but if you have earbuds, you continue to repeatedly stick these things in your ear. You're using them at the gym. You're using them when you're exercising, on the bike, all that sort of thing. There is a potential for increased risk of infections or getting ear infections from chronic use of earbuds. If you don't clean 'em and the kids will sometimes share their earbuds, which is a bad idea. And then the other thing is, is that you really can oftentimes drown out a lot of external noise, you know, even in the ear, earbuds now have noise canceling. And so what you find is a good number of cyclists and other and other folks, when they're jogging, they've got their noise canceling effect on.
So, they're cranking their music at, at 100 DBS. They have the noise canceling on and they don't hear a fire engine or they don't a honking horn or, or somebody coming up behind them. And so, yeah, there's, there's risks to using headphones and earbuds, in spite of whether we're talking about just hearing loss or not, if that makes sense.
Host: Can earbuds cause ear infections?
Dr. Ferguson: Yeah. So what I was saying earlier is that what happens if you were in an earbud, but it can trap sort of moisture and wetness in the ear canal. And then, you know, people are in the gym and they're working out and they're hot and sweaty. That's a perfect environment for bacteria and fungus. And so, cause they love these sort of warm, moist, dark areas. And so earbuds can cause potentially up to like a 10 or 11 fold increase in the likelihood of causing ear infections like swimmer's ear, the common kind of what we call the otitis externa so they can. So, that's why wealways say clean your earbuds. Don't share them with other people. Consider if you're using them for exercise, consider just wearing one when you're wearing them so that you still have exposure to external environmental noises.
Host: For some people they say over the ear headphones can be painful. I know for me, I have glasses. So, sometimes there's a lot happening on my ears. How can we avoid that?
Dr. Ferguson: So, with over that year headphones, sometimes you kind of get what you pay for, and if you get cheaper ones that don't fit as well, or put too much pressure on your ears, then it can, like you said, it can cause chronic pain. So, really what you want to do is you want to find an over the ear headphone, that fits well. That's not too tight. That has the nice soft cups that mold around the ear and can, and can decrease pain. I wear glasses too, and I have some over the ear headphones that I wear and, and I bought the really cheap ones and i've bought ones that are a little bit nicer. And by far the nicer ones are more comfortable to wear for sure.
Host: So in your opinion, what is the safest way to use headphones in general?
Dr. Ferguson: So, I think you can kind of, and if you look at some of the literature coming out of the ENT Academy, we basically have five tips for how to use headphones and how to preserve your hearing. Number one, turn it down to such a volume so this you're listening at sounds that are no louder than the 70% of the of the loudest volume. SO keep some from cranking up all the way. Number two, turn it off. Meaning don't listen to persistent loud noise for extended period of times. If you can use over the ear headphones over earbuds, then we do advocate for that. If you can wear noise canceling headphones in a safe environment, even though we talked about being careful about using them when you're cycling and things like that. If you wear noise canceling headphones, then you can oftentimes play your music at a lower volume and still hear it. And then also if you have the ability to, to equalize your sound and you can turn the bass up a little bit, somehow having extra bass makes you feel like you're listening to music a little bit louder, even when you're not. So, all those, all those, all those things sort of train you to not necessarily continue to listen to your headphones too loud.
Host: And you know, kids and teens are notorious for listening to music too loud, playing video games super loud. What can parents do to prevent potential hearing damage in younger kids?
Dr. Ferguson: I think my advice for, for what to do with that again is especially the younger ages if you can encourage them to wear the over the ear headphones at younger ages, that's great. Number two, use the devices at times without headphones. Again, parents are, we're funny creatures. We like our quiet time as well. So, sometimes we make decisions for ourselves that might not be the best decision for your child.
And so sometimes allow the noise to be external so that they're not always wearing headphones. And then like anything else, parents have to regulate what their kids are doing. They have got to keep their eye on the ball. They've got to make sure that if their kid has an iPhone, that the iPhone has a correct level of sound coming through. So, it's not up too high. They have to pay attention to what their kids are doing. And that's really it. It's pretty simple, just manage and pay attention to what your kids are doing. And don't let them do things that you know, are probably not healthy for them. Pretty true across the board.
Host: Well, some great information today, Doctor. Thank you so much for joining us. I know, I wish I listened to music a little lower when I was younger. To learn more about WakeMed's ENT services and locations, please visit wakemed.org. And thank you for listening. I'm Caitlin Whyte with WakeMed Voices brought to you by WakeMed Health and Hospitals in Raleigh, North Carolina.