Joey Wahler (Host): This is WakeMed Perspectives, a limited podcast series focused on the strategic combination of WakeMed and Atrium Health. Our guest, Donald Gintzig. He's president and CEO of WakeMed Health and Hospitals. Thanks for joining us. I'm Joey Wahler. Hi there, Donald. Welcome.

Donald Gintzig: Thank you, Joey. It's great to be here.

Host: Great to have you aboard to discuss this exciting news. So first, in a nutshell, why this combination of WakeMed and Atrium Health, and what do you think it means most of all for the community?

Donald Gintzig: Well, I can tell you that I think this is one of the most important things we'll do for the health and well-being for all in our community in the next 50 years. WakeMed's got an amazing history of care for all. We are the largest deliverer of care to the underserved in our community. We are also blessed to be able to live in a community where we deliver care to those with means, and we deliver care to those without means at that same level.

There's still a lot to be done. We're the healthiest county in North Carolina. But even in the healthiest county, we have disparity in life expectancy differences, especially in Southeast Raleigh, compared to other places in this community, not a few miles away, right? Ten, 15-year life expectancy differences. So, there's a lot to do to close those gaps, but there's a lot to do in terms of meeting this rapidly growing community's healthcare needs, but making sure that we do it for all.

Host: And when you just mentioned that you're talking about the healthiest county in the state, that certainly got my attention because that's something to be real proud of, yes?

Donald Gintzig: It is something to be proud of. Now, North Carolina is not as healthy as it could be either, but we are the healthiest county and, I think, one of the healthiest capital counties in the country, maybe top five. Our goal is to be the healthiest capital county and, again, try to close those disparity gaps and improve the health and well-being of all.

And so, it's why our history of care for all, and we've grown from that. We know there's needs today. We also know there's going to be even more needs in the community that we live in for the next 10, 20, 30 years, and how do we position ourselves to be strong enough to be able to meet the needs of this community.

More and more people are moving here. And they need greater access, they need it to be more affordable, they need more specialty services. And we're blessed to live in a region with some amazing healthcare providers, and we want to be able to compete with them where it makes us better, and we want to be able to collaborate with them where it makes the community's health better as well.

Host: And speaking of which, Donald, you mentioned a moment ago the great legacy of commitment to care that's been going on for more than 65 years now. So, this change that we're discussing, how will it most impact that care going forward?

Donald Gintzig: Well, it really gives us, Joey, the opportunity to join a family that shares our values of care for all. There aren't a lot of organizations that have "for all" in their mission. Atrium does. They've got a legacy as well, started even before WakeMed got started by the community, and they deliver a lot of care to the underserved and the served, and a lot of care to Medicaid patients and underinsured, and they have this amazing ethos and culture that's as close as I've found in my career to what WakeMed has as its purpose and mission. And two imperfect organizations, but both with perfect missions about elevating hope and improving the health and well-being of the community with compassion for all.

Host: And so, two like-minded organizations, and WakeMed serves hundreds of thousands of patients already. So, what, if anything, will change for them in terms of be it services, facilities, specialties, what have you?

Donald Gintzig: Well, of course, more services, right? More access points. We are growing. We're looking to build our whole health campus in Garner. We're looking to add more beds in North Raleigh at our north campus. Of course, more beds in Cary. A walk-in, urgent care emergency center in Fuquay-Varina. And a freestanding emergency center and healthplex in Rolesville.

But the most important thing that we need to do in addition to expanding care in those areas is expand what we're doing at our flagship Raleigh campus, which is in Southeast Raleigh. And it's 65 years old, Joey. So, I kid that, you know, our building, it qualifies for Medicare. It's 65 years old, and it doesn't look like most safety net hospitals in this country. But it is starting to show its age a little bit. And what we need to do is to rebuild its infrastructure, add more beds, add more surgical capabilities, add more emergency rooms, redesign the campus, and elevate what we do at one of the busiest hospitals in the country. Our emergency room at Raleigh is like the 12th or 13th busiest in the country, and it used to be top 10 until we built a freestanding emergency room in Wendell, and patients were able to get care there. We're one of the top 10 trauma centers in the country. We've got a world-class rehabilitation hospital. We're one of the best places to have a baby in the country across that. And we need services and facilities and more staff and resources across this region, but in particular the Southeast Raleigh area that has been forgotten by many in this community. And it is underserved, and the chance to bring more jobs and investment here, and our partnership with Wake Tech to expand education, our partnership with the county to be able to expand services, yes, across Wake County, but in particular Southeast Raleigh.

Host: Well, the cost of healthcare, which you alluded to a moment or two ago, is always, of course, at the top of people's minds. So, how will this venture impact patients there, do you think?

Donald Gintzig: Well, I always ask folks how many want to pay more for their healthcare? And I very seldom, Joey, see a hand go up. But I also know that everyone associated with healthcare, our costs go up every single day, from drug supplies, medical supplies, equipment supplies, construction supplies, and people.

And understandably, they want to get paid. They're doing amazing things. So if you're ultimately going to lower the cost of healthcare, you focus on keeping people healthy. A healthy person costs a lot less than a sick person. So, we and Atrium are very active in not only delivering care to those that are sick, ill, or injured, but also how do we help keep people from getting sick, ill, or injured in the first place. And so, it allows that continued focus.

What I can tell you is that one of the benefits of joining a larger organization is purchasing power, right? For drugs, supplies, equipment, and those sorts of things. We're one of the smallest statewide competitors. We deliver care to patients from all 100 counties. We are a fraction of the size of our competition. And so, again, we want to be able to compete and be able to buy things the way they do with a little greater purchasing power. And we have a history of doing that without being the most expensive and highest paid in the state.

And so, what I can tell you is it's going to position us to be able to, if anything, control our healthcare costs. And we can then create more access and services and keep people healthy and put new technology in place, and then continue our innovation to create more affordable options for folks.

Our walk-in primary care, our urgent care, our virtual care, our primary care practices out in the community will give the people of our community more options for care where they need it at the appropriate and affordable level.

Host: Certainly great news for many joining us right now. Well, you mentioned earlier, Donald, some of the need for growth and newness. And I want to go back to that for a moment because there have been big plans for WakeMed's growth, including the whole health campus and mental health and well-being hospital as well. How would you say this combination now impacts those and other future projects?

Donald Gintzig: Certainly. Well, besides WakeMed being the largest deliverer of charity care in our community, Atrium is the largest deliverer of charity care in their communities as well. So, you've got a partner that's like-minded in how do we expand care for all.

One example I can give you is there aren't many health systems running toward those mental health care needs that the community has. What I saw out of the folks at Atrium was even before we started running towards it and putting our outpatient network together, they stepped up and built a mental health and well-being hospital in the Charlotte area at a time when there's no money in it, right? But there's a need. And so, together we'll be able to be one of the largest nonprofit mental health providers in the state, when the mental health needs of North Carolina continue to grow. And our ability to meet those needs and when they need inpatient services, we're able to do it. And at the same time, the majority need outpatient services, and we connect them to providers and clinicians in their area that can help them meet their needs on a local level and on a statewide level.

Host: Of course, the backbone of any great healthcare organization is its staff. And for those wondering what this means for your workforce and what opportunities are going to be affected with this combination, what would you say to the people in the trenches, as they say?

Donald Gintzig: This is going to allow us to do more together with you. We need more people. You all know what a special organization we are. And I'm very proud of our amazing culture and our people that embrace that every day, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. We're going to be able to bring more people and provide more care and elevate staff and resources to be able to allow them to continue to share their amazing gifts with as great a purpose as there is, as I mentioned to start, right? Alleviating suffering and helping people live as healthy a life as they can. And the ability for us to bring new services and innovation and expertise to expand on what's already great at WakeMed. And I'll be honest I'm looking forward to being a part of Atrium, because they are an organization that's interested in learning from us as they are being here as a resource to help us get better as well.

And there are some things we do as well as anyone in the country that I know they have an interest in learning from. And they do things as well as anyone in the country, that I know our team and our clinicians and our patients are going to be able to deliver more care and services for all in the community

Host: Couple of other questions for you, Donald. First, naturally, rightfully, this news has been big news throughout the area.

Donald Gintzig: Has it?

Host: it's created a ripple or two in the healthcare community, yes. So, regarding this venture, is there a misconception out there that you'd like to address? Maybe something that people aren't as clear about as they should be going forward. After all, you're the man in charge. You can clear it up as well as anyone.

Donald Gintzig: Well, there obviously is a lack of understanding of everything that's associated with it, right? It's going to be a shock for some and a surprise for others. For many, it's a sign of hope that WakeMed's going to be strong for many, many years into the future. For others, it creates some uncertainty, and they want to understand it.

There are some not surprising that like a WakeMed, but not a too strong WakeMed, right? There may be some that would benefit from a weaker WakeMed, and there are some that fear a stronger WakeMed. But I'd say, on the whole, this really is about our patients and our community. That's our purpose. And our board of directors, again, unpaid, very smart people, have done their due diligence on are they who they say they are at Atrium, and every investigation on our part and bringing experts in and advisors in say they are. And it really is going to provide us with a lot of capability to drive health for all. There aren't many that have "for all" in their mission and purpose. And I look forward to sharing with all those that love WakeMed and are concerned and want their WakeMed to thrive, that's what this is about. Not just surviving, but thriving and improving health for all in the community.

And I look for those that are worried about a stronger WakeMed that's competing to get better healthcare and better experiences for patients and more resources for patients, all for the good of a healthier community.

So, I look forward to answering questions, getting people to understand WakeMed stays WakeMed. WakeMed still keeps its purpose and nonprofit. We just have joined a family who has the means and similar vision and purpose to help us do things for this community. They're well-run, financially sound, and with a similar purpose. So, we're joining a family, and it's going to allow us to do more for the people of this community faster and better.

Host: Certainly sounds like it. And finally, in summary here, Donald, what would you say is the timeline for this new venture in terms of when people will see the first noticeable difference, noticeable improvement? And along with that, you've laid out so wonderfully some of the changes that are expected. What are you most excited about here? So when and what are you most excited about first? What's sort of job one here going forward?

Donald Gintzig: Well, first and foremost, it was asking the county to amend our transfer agreement. We're a private health system, but the county commissioners have the ability to amend our transfer agreement to allow us to join this family. So, assuming the county commissioners, say yes and see the wisdom in it, then obviously any type of combination like this has to be reviewed by the Federal Trade Commission to make sure it's not anti-competitive, that it meets muster and those sorts of things.

Then, assuming we get over that step, then we begin a six-month process where we learn about them even more, and they learn about us and see what's going really, really well and see what we can get better on with them.

You ask what's the biggest thing? We've got these amazing facility plans and needs that I talked about. We're going to be able to start planning those sooner than later. And so, it's going to allow us to look at not only how we grow in Garner, how do we grow in Fuquay-Varina, but how do we grow in North Raleigh, how do we grow at the Raleigh campus in Southeast Raleigh? And we're going to be able to start putting those plans and working with Wake Tech and the county on our education, district at Southeast Raleigh to be able to move forward on those sooner.

So, it really lets you start looking at how do we make things happen In the next five years? How do we add 3,000 jobs over the next five years? How do we start to renovate facilities and add new care models and elevate care for all in the community? We'll be able to start planning that sooner than later.

Host: Well, folks, we trust you're now more familiar with this exciting combination between WakeMed and Atrium Health. Donald Gintzig says it remains healthcare for all, just bigger and better in the future. Donald, keep up all your great work. I'm sure it's been a ton of work just getting it all to this point. Best of luck moving forward, and thanks so much again.

And to learn more about WakeMed, Atrium Health, and the future of healthcare in Wake County, please visit wakemed.org/wakemed-atrium-combination, or keep tuning in right here for this limited podcast series, WakeMed Perspectives. Now, if you found this episode helpful, please do share it on your social media. I'm Joey Wahler. And thanks so much again for being part of WakeMed Perspectives.