Maggie McKay (Host): Welcome to Stoughton Health Talk. I'm your host, Maggie McKay. Today we'll find out about growth mindset, what it is, why it's important, and more with Shawn Smith, Purpose Coach and Mediator. Thank you so much for joining us, Shawn.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Hi, thank you for having me, Maggie. I appreciate it.

Host: I can't wait to hear more about this because I don't really know. What is mindset?

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Mindset is really just a person's established set of attitudes, beliefs, assumptions. And that basically like shapes how we interact with the world, right? It's our behaviors and our interactions. Mindset is the stories you tell yourself. I'll give two examples. One story I tell myself is I'm not good with math or technology.

Another story I tell myself is I'm good with people and problem solving. So that's how I interact with the world, if that helps make sense.

Host: And what's the difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset? Maybe share some examples of the difference.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: So a growth mindset means you're able to see potential in change, that you have the capacity and the ability to know that your intelligence or your actions can prove that you can make a difference. A fixed mindset is quite the opposite. And it sits in the terms of fixed, that it's not going to change, That this is how it is. And two examples. So growth mindset, maybe, okay, I'm not great with numbers, but I can learn, and I can prove to you that I can learn. A fixed mindset is, I'm not good with numbers. That's just how it is. And you hear that a lot, right? And we all share those fixed mindset, the limiting beliefs.

They usually are like an always or never. I'm just not good with numbers. I'm not a morning person. I'll never have a relationship. That type of saying.

Host: Well, it's good to know, number one, that you can change your mindset. That's helpful right there. So why is it important to use the growth mindset when working towards, say, a new goal or instituting new habits? Like, maybe you want to eat healthier, say.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Right. So using the framework of goal setting, because most of us understand that. If you were to go on the sidewalk, 9 out of 10 people would be able to answer they have a goal or a dream or aspiration, right? So if you had a fixed mindset, like it's just not gonna happen, it's not gonna change, well that's gonna be pretty challenging.

Because things will be different, they'll be hard. If you have a growth mindset, you are okay with change. You are also okay with failing, and maybe you consider it like a fail up. And neuroscience now says that our brains, it can change, like we can rewire and learn new things. So if you are practicing or looking for a new goal or doing something that would be very meaningful in your life, understanding that you can change and learn and adapt is a much better mindset to have, right, than a fixed mindset.

Host: I always think about that, like when you see movies and you see someone who maybe was an addict and then they turned it around and they never went back. You know, just as an example. Something so engrained in your life, and then they manage to turn it around and change.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: One of the reasons would be that they took action. One of the problems I would say, if we're waiting for a mindset shift; is we wait for motivation, right? We wait for some big aha moment, but the truth of the matter is motivation never just happens. Really, rarely, you have to take action. So one tiny step to prove that you can take that next right step is then the lead up to the motivation, right? And then it's like a snowball.

Host: Shawn, can you explain why it's not your fault that working with a growth mindset might be challenging?

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Well, our brains are protective. Our brain wants to protect us and keep us safe. If we go back to like years and years and years ago, caveman days, if we're living in a cave; we are only concerned about eating, fueling our body, water, protection from the saber toothed tiger. So that's what we're worried about.

We're also worried about maybe not getting kicked out of the tribe. That's called negativity bias because we can't survive on our own. So we're worried about other people's opinions. Our brain wants to keep us safe from the saber toothed tiger. So it doesn't want to take a lot of risks. And it also doesn't want us to get kicked out of the tribe.

So we're a little concerned about what others might feel about us, might say about us. You know, how many likes do we have on our social media? If I do make this change, what's our family going to say or the friends that know me? So those two things are already inherent in our brain, but the good news, is we can rewire that and think about it in a different sense.

Host: So what's the first step to take? And then how do we implement a growth mindset?

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Understanding mindset first, that there's a growth and that there's a fixed. Understanding that if you have the fixed mindset, that you can make those changes. They'll start usually with a small micro change repeated daily. So we bring in habits. There's a very great technique that I love. It's called eat the frog.

I brought this little guy. So yes, you can see this little guy, this frog. This is my reminder. Eat the frog is a concept that anybody can use. It was developed by Mark Twain, and he said, if it's your job to eat a frog, you might as well do it first thing in the morning. So if you think about that, if you did have a frog and you waited at 20 minutes, an hour, five days, I mean, this frog gets like pretty big and ugly and nasty, right?

So what would have happened if you just took care of it in the morning? It would have been over with, been done with. You also would prove like, I can do hard things or something that was not quite pleasing. And that sets up action for the next hard thing. When you let things sit, and fester, get bigger, and out of control; they're so hard to tackle. That's called the procrastination. We all have that. An example, I had a bill I needed to pay. I wasn't quite sure that it was the right amount. I didn't feel like dealing with it. It just was one of those things, having to make that conversation and have a hard conversation.

I let that sit for probably three weeks. You know how big that frog was? It was giant. It was like right here the whole time. When I finally did make the call, it was a lovely conversation. It took 30 seconds. We both agreed on terms.

Host: Well, for me, Shawn, it's my closet. I read every possible self-help thing on the internet or in books about organization and letting go of stuff and the three piles. And it just never gets done because it just seems so overwhelming. Like I open the closet, I'm like, hmm, maybe tomorrow, but then it's always bugging you.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Right and it's the shame, regret, kind of guilt. Those are unhelpful feelings. They will not help you move forward. They keep you stuck. So if you can eat the frog, first thing in the morning, it sets yourself up for success, turns your fixed mindset, like kind of stuck, I just can't do it, I'm overwhelmed; it gets bigger and worse, But if you eat it, it's done with. And then he also said if you have two frogs, you should eat them both.

Host: What if you have several?

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Then you got to do, you got to eat them all, Maggie.

Host: I think that's why a lot of people work out in the morning, you know. You get it done and your day is set.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: And then exercise alone. I mean, let's talk about that. That changes everything in your mindset and in your body physiologically. So if there's a goal that you have in mind. If you set up one frog in the morning and you eat that frog immediately, you are much more motivated, you performed the action to do the next thing.

Host: Well, Shawn, this has been so inspirational and motivational. I'm going to go tackle my closet right now or at least start. Just start. Anything else you want to say in closing that we didn't cover?

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: No, I appreciate that. I think it's lesson in perseverance. It's a lesson in tackling each frog every morning and doing it on repeat. So that's the habit system. But if you have a little frog like I have, right, and you set it out there every morning and determine what that frog is, you'll find that motivation. And the next thing you know, those mindset shifts, they happen automatically.

Host: Thank you so much, Shawn. This has been so fun and educational. Very useful information.

Shawn Smith, MPA, MSW: Thank you.

Maggie McKay (Host): Again, that's Shawn Smith. To find out more, please visit the purposecoachshawn.com. That's the purposecoachS-H-A-W-N.com, and also stoughtonhealth.com. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out our entire podcast library. For topics of interest to you, I'm Maggie McKay.

Thanks for listening to Stoughton Health Talk.