Funerals, Memorial services, Life Celebrations of all types seem to have declined during the pandemic. Why? Is this a good thing or should we be concerned?
Learn more about Jim Droste, Pastor
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Should We Do Away With Funerals And Memorial Services?
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Learn more about Jim Droste, Pastor
Jim Droste, Pastor
Jim has a Bachelor of Music Education Degree from the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. During college Jim had a passion for music and had a passion for teaching, but did not see himself as a choir director. He learned a great deal from his work in student government and through his work as a Community Advisor in college, so he decided to pursue a career in student affairs.Learn more about Jim Droste, Pastor
Transcription:
Should We Do Away With Funerals And Memorial Services?
Caitlin Whyte (Host): Memorial services of all types seem to have declined during the pandemic. Pastor Jim Droste is joining us today to share what he has witnessed over the past few years, as the Hospice Chaplain with Upland Hills Health Hospice. We'll talk why funerals, memorial services and life celebrations are important, and how to decide what to do when faced with health challenges and differing points of view.
This is the Inspire Health podcast from Upland Hills Health. I'm Caitlin Whyte. So, Pastor Jim in your eyes, why is it so important to have a funeral service, a memorial service or some kind of celebration of life gathering for a loved one who has died?
Pastor Jim Droste (Guest): Well, first and foremost, I think having a funeral service, memorial service, celebration of life gives family, friends, community a sense of closure. It gives them an opportunity to remember and celebrate a loved one. And I think it marks, I think was in our culture, it kind of marks an important part or an important start to the grieving process. For funeral and memorial services, it offers reassurance, especially depending on one's religious tradition, as we think about what happens for folks, especially after one dies. I think for celebration of life gatherings, it offers just one more time to gather a group together, to remember someone that you care about and to have one more experience to take with you as you kind of, as you go and journey on that grief process.
Caitlin Whyte (Host): So in recent years, have you noticed a change or a decrease in these types of gatherings and why do you think that is?
Pastor Jim: I think we've, we've especially seen it during COVID certainly, a lot of, you know, a lot of the obituaries that are listed in the paper will say, you know, due to COVID, we'll have a celebration at a later date. And so that has been one concern, but I've seen this even before COVID, you know, where you read in the paper and it will say due to the wishes of, you know, their loved one or by the wishes of the family, there will be no gathering or no celebration.
And I remember seeing that a few years ago and that kind of struck me because it was, I didn't see that often, but over the last few years, when I look in our paper, I'm seeing that more and more, and obviously COVID made that moreso, but even, in the last few years, I've just been seeing more and more families saying we're not going to have any kind of a gathering.
And, and that, you know, that troubled me a bit. And I, I, I'm worried about seeing that trend and I worry about how that might affect people in their grieving process moving forward. And I, I think there's, you know, I've seen the research that says that traditional funeral services are diminishing, but what we're seeing in replacement meant of that are more memorial services and other community gatherings, but overall, I'm seeing those services or gatherings being held less and less. So I have seen a decrease and it concerns me.
Host: Do you, that's so interesting. Do you have any theories or thoughts as to why, you know, COVID and safety concerns aside, why people might not be wanting to have these in general?
Pastor Jim: You know, that's a, that's a good question. And that's one I've been thinking about. And I, I think on some, I mean, look, you know, as a pastor, I can, I can see, I can see that in our culture, there's a growing segment of the population that either has no religious affiliation, or maybe we'll say a loose, a looser religious affiliation. And I think there is kind of a, a tie where, oh, well, if we have a gathering, it's a religious thing.
And, you know, look as a, as a pastor, right. You know, if it's a member of my congregation or part of the church family, that's probably what we're going to have. But I think I would make the observation that I think sometimes because people see that tie, they just choose not to have anything, whereas even having a you know, just a gathering at a local restaurant where everybody gets together and just has a meal together, you know, that's fine. And whatever it is that gets people together, I think is important. But I think people make that association and say, well, we don't want to have that. So we'll just choose to, we'll just choose to have nothing.
And, you know, I, I think that's unfortunate because it, it takes away an important experience for folks to have, as they remember a loved one that they, that they lost.
Host: Yeah. You know, I'm not the most textbook religious person, but I do have a playlist going of songs I want played at my funeral and I have my friends have a link to it. So, that's just so interesting that people would opt out of that. You obviously work at the hospital. And so I imagine you're having these conversations quite often. So, how do you approach a family that maybe like you're saying isn't interested in having a gathering for their loved one again, barring safety restrictions, COVID concerns. How do you kind of talk to them about the benefits of it?
Pastor Jim: No, that's a good question. And I think for me, I would start that conversation because I think for the family, you know, funerals and memorial services and even gatherings, that's not easy. I mean, those gatherings, you know, culturally, we have them, you know, within a week maybe two. And I think a lot of family are still in that kind of in the stages of grief, they're still in that shock stage where it's just like, you know, what just happened, what's going on. And, and I think that sometimes in the midst of that or thinking about that, one of the options is I just don't want to deal with it.
So, I think part of it is helping them in that moment to, to acknowledge that and, and, and tell them I understand that. But just to remember, that this is, this is something that it is for you, but it is also for your extended family, for their friends. You know, you name it, coworkers, the community that got to know this person that you don't, you don't want to forget kind of what would be helpful for them as well to where sometimes it might at the time seem like the easiest thing to do would just be, you know, let's not, let's just not deal with it is to kind of help them there. And I think the other thing too, and it feels weird to say this as a pastor, but you know, if I work as a chaplain, You know, we're called to work with people from a variety of denominational traditions within Christianity, but also other religions and traditions or non traditions that even if they want to have a gathering, that's not religious in nature, that, that that's okay. As long as they do something that allows them to you know, to, to remember that person. I, I can think of two circumstances. Obviously, I won't use names, but two people within my church family who passed away and the family just said, no, no funeral, no service, no gathering. And it was early enough in my ministry that, and this was before I was a chaplain that I didn't maybe press as much as I should, but I know for me, it kind of left a void there, even for me as somebody who got to know those people, not having that opportunity to gather together and remember, it just feels incomplete.
And I don't want any, anyone else to come away having a similar feeling where they feel like, oh, we should have done that. And we never did to just make sure they really, they really think about it and, and we explore all options before they would make the choice, not, not to have that service or that gathering.
Host: Right. Yeah. And then when it comes to the person that you're working with, who is maybe dying, or just thinking about what will happen when that time comes, how does that conversation go with that person and, you know, fulfilling their wishes of some kind of memorial service?
Pastor Jim: Well, a lot of the, a lot of the, a lot of the approach would be similar to what I just said. I think there's differences. And I, and I was trying to think of how to, how to articulate this and not sound, you know, not to sound harsh, but in the end, a gathering, a funeral service, a memorial service, you know, that it's about you, but it's not for you. So, you know, that when somebody says, wow, I don't want people getting together for me. You know what? I get it. But in the end, the purpose of that service is to remember you, to honor you, to celebrate your life. But it's, we're not doing it for you. We're doing it for those of us who are still here, you know, for the purpose of grieving. So to kind of, to talk through that, it might, you know, and for a church member, it might be in the context obviously of their, of their faith walk and for somebody who's not, it might just be in the context of saying, you know, let's just think about why we're doing this.
And look, you know, a lot of individuals and families, you know, this is probably a whole nother podcast, but it also speaks to you, as you had said earlier about, you know, you kind of have a play list. You know, that to me means that you're in some way, in a small way, maybe thinking about, okay, you know, when that time comes, you know, I want this music played, these scripture readings, these poems read, these people to speak, et cetera, et cetera, that it's not something we think about a lot.
So it also is important to have these conversations with folks, whether they're at the point to where they're under hospice care, and this is a conversation we need to be having imminently or, you know, is it just something for peace of mind of your spouse, your family, and others that to get them thinking, not only about whether or not this is something they want to do, but to start planning it.
And like I said, that's a whole nother conversation, but I think it is important that we not avoid, you know that somehow talking about it means we're admitting defeat or we're getting morbid. But I think having those conversations will give the family peace of mind too, because there are decisions that they don't have to be trying to guess. They know how you, how, how you, or you want to be celebrated or remembered.
Host: Yeah, I think for me personally, with the whole playlist of it all, not that it helps me come to terms with it, but it kind of brings a lightness to it and almost some kind of maybe control over the situation or planning aspect you know.
Pastor Jim: No. I agree. And I think in the end, if you're going to celebrate someone's life, if you're going to, or whether it's in a more traditional funeral service or just a gathering, you would want it to be kind of tailored to, or a reflection of who that person was. And like you said, music definitely does that. You know, what's read, you know, what's served to eat, you name it, like whatever it is that offers, whatever creates that kind of lasting memory in that time of cele, of just saying that's who this person was. And this day we, we honor that. We remember it, we cherish it. We celebrate it. Whatever we can do to, to, to personalize it and make it meaningful, that preparation is great.
Host: Absolutely. Well, like you said, this podcast could take so many different twists and turns, but as we wrap up here, is there anything else you want people to know about when it comes to these conversations and these decisions, planning early? What happens in the moment? Just something to wrap it up.
Pastor Jim: Yeah, I think that's the big thing is to, to plan early. I know in my experience, not only as a chaplain, but also as a pastor, the celebrations or gatherings that have been the most meaningful are the ones where the, the individual who died, had wishes. Otherwise, one of my, you know, when you gather with the family and you all kind of look at each other and then I'm like, okay, so what music do we want?
You know, what scriptures do we read? That's where I think it sounds strange to kind of, you know, we prepare wills and other things. And for some people that can be weird. But I think thinking about how you, how you would want to be remembered is not an easy conversation, but I think it will offer not only that individual, but I think their family, peace of mind to know these are things that we know that will honor you and we know, and then we're not trying to guess.
So I think there's one more thing that I did that I would leave people with is just have those conversations, not only about whether or not to do it, because I would say, please do it, but also to, to plan it and think about it and have that conversation, so it will be easier when that time comes to do something that is truly honoring and memorable.
Host: Well, Pastor Jim, this conversation has been so moving and enlightening and like we said, it's something we don't want to talk about, but it's so important to have those plans. So, thank you again for being a light in these. If you or a loved one are facing end of life decisions, you don't have to go it alone. Pastor Jim and the professionals at Upland Hills Health Hospice are here to provide support to you and your family. Ask for Upland Hills Health Hospice by calling 608-930-7210. That's 608-930-7210. Or visit uplandhillshealth.org. This is the Inspire Health podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Stay well.
Should We Do Away With Funerals And Memorial Services?
Caitlin Whyte (Host): Memorial services of all types seem to have declined during the pandemic. Pastor Jim Droste is joining us today to share what he has witnessed over the past few years, as the Hospice Chaplain with Upland Hills Health Hospice. We'll talk why funerals, memorial services and life celebrations are important, and how to decide what to do when faced with health challenges and differing points of view.
This is the Inspire Health podcast from Upland Hills Health. I'm Caitlin Whyte. So, Pastor Jim in your eyes, why is it so important to have a funeral service, a memorial service or some kind of celebration of life gathering for a loved one who has died?
Pastor Jim Droste (Guest): Well, first and foremost, I think having a funeral service, memorial service, celebration of life gives family, friends, community a sense of closure. It gives them an opportunity to remember and celebrate a loved one. And I think it marks, I think was in our culture, it kind of marks an important part or an important start to the grieving process. For funeral and memorial services, it offers reassurance, especially depending on one's religious tradition, as we think about what happens for folks, especially after one dies. I think for celebration of life gatherings, it offers just one more time to gather a group together, to remember someone that you care about and to have one more experience to take with you as you kind of, as you go and journey on that grief process.
Caitlin Whyte (Host): So in recent years, have you noticed a change or a decrease in these types of gatherings and why do you think that is?
Pastor Jim: I think we've, we've especially seen it during COVID certainly, a lot of, you know, a lot of the obituaries that are listed in the paper will say, you know, due to COVID, we'll have a celebration at a later date. And so that has been one concern, but I've seen this even before COVID, you know, where you read in the paper and it will say due to the wishes of, you know, their loved one or by the wishes of the family, there will be no gathering or no celebration.
And I remember seeing that a few years ago and that kind of struck me because it was, I didn't see that often, but over the last few years, when I look in our paper, I'm seeing that more and more, and obviously COVID made that moreso, but even, in the last few years, I've just been seeing more and more families saying we're not going to have any kind of a gathering.
And, and that, you know, that troubled me a bit. And I, I, I'm worried about seeing that trend and I worry about how that might affect people in their grieving process moving forward. And I, I think there's, you know, I've seen the research that says that traditional funeral services are diminishing, but what we're seeing in replacement meant of that are more memorial services and other community gatherings, but overall, I'm seeing those services or gatherings being held less and less. So I have seen a decrease and it concerns me.
Host: Do you, that's so interesting. Do you have any theories or thoughts as to why, you know, COVID and safety concerns aside, why people might not be wanting to have these in general?
Pastor Jim: You know, that's a, that's a good question. And that's one I've been thinking about. And I, I think on some, I mean, look, you know, as a pastor, I can, I can see, I can see that in our culture, there's a growing segment of the population that either has no religious affiliation, or maybe we'll say a loose, a looser religious affiliation. And I think there is kind of a, a tie where, oh, well, if we have a gathering, it's a religious thing.
And, you know, look as a, as a pastor, right. You know, if it's a member of my congregation or part of the church family, that's probably what we're going to have. But I think I would make the observation that I think sometimes because people see that tie, they just choose not to have anything, whereas even having a you know, just a gathering at a local restaurant where everybody gets together and just has a meal together, you know, that's fine. And whatever it is that gets people together, I think is important. But I think people make that association and say, well, we don't want to have that. So we'll just choose to, we'll just choose to have nothing.
And, you know, I, I think that's unfortunate because it, it takes away an important experience for folks to have, as they remember a loved one that they, that they lost.
Host: Yeah. You know, I'm not the most textbook religious person, but I do have a playlist going of songs I want played at my funeral and I have my friends have a link to it. So, that's just so interesting that people would opt out of that. You obviously work at the hospital. And so I imagine you're having these conversations quite often. So, how do you approach a family that maybe like you're saying isn't interested in having a gathering for their loved one again, barring safety restrictions, COVID concerns. How do you kind of talk to them about the benefits of it?
Pastor Jim: No, that's a good question. And I think for me, I would start that conversation because I think for the family, you know, funerals and memorial services and even gatherings, that's not easy. I mean, those gatherings, you know, culturally, we have them, you know, within a week maybe two. And I think a lot of family are still in that kind of in the stages of grief, they're still in that shock stage where it's just like, you know, what just happened, what's going on. And, and I think that sometimes in the midst of that or thinking about that, one of the options is I just don't want to deal with it.
So, I think part of it is helping them in that moment to, to acknowledge that and, and, and tell them I understand that. But just to remember, that this is, this is something that it is for you, but it is also for your extended family, for their friends. You know, you name it, coworkers, the community that got to know this person that you don't, you don't want to forget kind of what would be helpful for them as well to where sometimes it might at the time seem like the easiest thing to do would just be, you know, let's not, let's just not deal with it is to kind of help them there. And I think the other thing too, and it feels weird to say this as a pastor, but you know, if I work as a chaplain, You know, we're called to work with people from a variety of denominational traditions within Christianity, but also other religions and traditions or non traditions that even if they want to have a gathering, that's not religious in nature, that, that that's okay. As long as they do something that allows them to you know, to, to remember that person. I, I can think of two circumstances. Obviously, I won't use names, but two people within my church family who passed away and the family just said, no, no funeral, no service, no gathering. And it was early enough in my ministry that, and this was before I was a chaplain that I didn't maybe press as much as I should, but I know for me, it kind of left a void there, even for me as somebody who got to know those people, not having that opportunity to gather together and remember, it just feels incomplete.
And I don't want any, anyone else to come away having a similar feeling where they feel like, oh, we should have done that. And we never did to just make sure they really, they really think about it and, and we explore all options before they would make the choice, not, not to have that service or that gathering.
Host: Right. Yeah. And then when it comes to the person that you're working with, who is maybe dying, or just thinking about what will happen when that time comes, how does that conversation go with that person and, you know, fulfilling their wishes of some kind of memorial service?
Pastor Jim: Well, a lot of the, a lot of the, a lot of the approach would be similar to what I just said. I think there's differences. And I, and I was trying to think of how to, how to articulate this and not sound, you know, not to sound harsh, but in the end, a gathering, a funeral service, a memorial service, you know, that it's about you, but it's not for you. So, you know, that when somebody says, wow, I don't want people getting together for me. You know what? I get it. But in the end, the purpose of that service is to remember you, to honor you, to celebrate your life. But it's, we're not doing it for you. We're doing it for those of us who are still here, you know, for the purpose of grieving. So to kind of, to talk through that, it might, you know, and for a church member, it might be in the context obviously of their, of their faith walk and for somebody who's not, it might just be in the context of saying, you know, let's just think about why we're doing this.
And look, you know, a lot of individuals and families, you know, this is probably a whole nother podcast, but it also speaks to you, as you had said earlier about, you know, you kind of have a play list. You know, that to me means that you're in some way, in a small way, maybe thinking about, okay, you know, when that time comes, you know, I want this music played, these scripture readings, these poems read, these people to speak, et cetera, et cetera, that it's not something we think about a lot.
So it also is important to have these conversations with folks, whether they're at the point to where they're under hospice care, and this is a conversation we need to be having imminently or, you know, is it just something for peace of mind of your spouse, your family, and others that to get them thinking, not only about whether or not this is something they want to do, but to start planning it.
And like I said, that's a whole nother conversation, but I think it is important that we not avoid, you know that somehow talking about it means we're admitting defeat or we're getting morbid. But I think having those conversations will give the family peace of mind too, because there are decisions that they don't have to be trying to guess. They know how you, how, how you, or you want to be celebrated or remembered.
Host: Yeah, I think for me personally, with the whole playlist of it all, not that it helps me come to terms with it, but it kind of brings a lightness to it and almost some kind of maybe control over the situation or planning aspect you know.
Pastor Jim: No. I agree. And I think in the end, if you're going to celebrate someone's life, if you're going to, or whether it's in a more traditional funeral service or just a gathering, you would want it to be kind of tailored to, or a reflection of who that person was. And like you said, music definitely does that. You know, what's read, you know, what's served to eat, you name it, like whatever it is that offers, whatever creates that kind of lasting memory in that time of cele, of just saying that's who this person was. And this day we, we honor that. We remember it, we cherish it. We celebrate it. Whatever we can do to, to, to personalize it and make it meaningful, that preparation is great.
Host: Absolutely. Well, like you said, this podcast could take so many different twists and turns, but as we wrap up here, is there anything else you want people to know about when it comes to these conversations and these decisions, planning early? What happens in the moment? Just something to wrap it up.
Pastor Jim: Yeah, I think that's the big thing is to, to plan early. I know in my experience, not only as a chaplain, but also as a pastor, the celebrations or gatherings that have been the most meaningful are the ones where the, the individual who died, had wishes. Otherwise, one of my, you know, when you gather with the family and you all kind of look at each other and then I'm like, okay, so what music do we want?
You know, what scriptures do we read? That's where I think it sounds strange to kind of, you know, we prepare wills and other things. And for some people that can be weird. But I think thinking about how you, how you would want to be remembered is not an easy conversation, but I think it will offer not only that individual, but I think their family, peace of mind to know these are things that we know that will honor you and we know, and then we're not trying to guess.
So I think there's one more thing that I did that I would leave people with is just have those conversations, not only about whether or not to do it, because I would say, please do it, but also to, to plan it and think about it and have that conversation, so it will be easier when that time comes to do something that is truly honoring and memorable.
Host: Well, Pastor Jim, this conversation has been so moving and enlightening and like we said, it's something we don't want to talk about, but it's so important to have those plans. So, thank you again for being a light in these. If you or a loved one are facing end of life decisions, you don't have to go it alone. Pastor Jim and the professionals at Upland Hills Health Hospice are here to provide support to you and your family. Ask for Upland Hills Health Hospice by calling 608-930-7210. That's 608-930-7210. Or visit uplandhillshealth.org. This is the Inspire Health podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Stay well.