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Additional Info
- Segment Number 2
- Audio File healthy_talk/1520ht2b.mp3
- Featured Speaker Bill Aron, PhD
- Book Title New Beginnings: The Triumphs of 120 Cancer Survivors
-
Guest Bio
Bill Aron, PhD, is an internationally renowned photographer and author. Aron's photographs have been exhibited in major museums and galleries internationally including the Museum of Modern Art, the International Center for Photography, the Chicago Art Institute, and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.
His books include From the Corners of the Earth, Shalom Y'all: Images of Jewish Life in the American South and his latest book New Beginnings: The Triumphs of 120 Cancer Survivors.
Aron lives in Los Angeles with his wife and two sons, where he is quite possibly the only photographer with a PhD in sociology (from the University of Chicago). -
Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Healthy Talk | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Michael Smith, MD
Living longer and staying healthier, it's Healthy Talk with Dr. Michael Smith,, MD. Here's your host, Dr. Mike:
DR MIKE: When it comes to a scary diagnosis, heart disease, Alzheimer's, I like to, during my show, cover the science of those diseases. I like to cover the treatments. I think that's important to keep my listeners, to keep me, to keep Life Extension customers, up today in all that good science, but I also like to talk about people. You know, the people who have gone through the diagnosis, the treatment. People that survived, who are doing well from these treatments and I think we can learn so much from them. My guest wrote a book that is titled, New Beginnings: The Triumphs of 120 Cancer Survivors. His name is Dr. Bill Aron.
He's an internationally renowned photographer and author his photographs have been in, really, just about every major museum and gallery throughout the world. Really. He's been in the Museum of Modern Art, the International Center for Photography, the Chicago Art Institute, The Boston Museum of Fine Arts, so just well-known and I just find it really interesting that he chooses to write a book about cancer survivors.
Bill Aron, welcome to Healthy Talk.
DR. BILL: Thank you, Dr. Mike, it's good to be here.
DR. MIKE: Sorry for that long introduction, but I thought it was important to let my listeners know that; to learn about people's personal stories people who have actually survived, especially, in this case, the dreaded cancer diagnosis. I think we learn a lot from them. What was your inspiration for all of this?
DR. BILL: When I was diagnosed with cancer, I was, of course, devastated, as most people are. The reaction of fear is usually followed by a sense of feeling all alone. I felt alienated, estranged from the world. I could be in a room full of people. In truth, I knew intellectually that everybody had some problem they were working on, but I felt like I was totally alone and separate and Susan Sontag action has a wonderful phrase that she uses in her book about being sick with a serious disease. She wrote that a sick person is transported to another country, separate and distinct from the land of the healthy and I was angry. I felt like I had failed my body. Rabbi Ed Feinstein, who's one of the participants in the book, had this to say and I think it's a really profound thought for people who have a serious illness cancer and other, "The way of healing is to balance the loss and fear and rage with a sense of gratitude. When they balance, we are whole; when they are not, we are cured." And so these 120 survivors, they became my teachers.
DR. MIKE: That's awesome, Bill.
DR. BILL: I went to a support group called the Cancer Support Community in West Los Angeles. During one of the sessions, another survivor said to me "You know, cancer is the best thing that ever happened to me" and it was just like this, you know, it was not an epiphany, but it was total disbelief. It was the opposite, I guess, of an epiphany and I felt, "How could that be?" Cancer's the worst thing. Then, I began to speak with other people and I found out that this is not an uncommon thought and I wanted to explore this and that was really the birth of the idea for this book.
DR. MIKE: Interestingly, Bill, you mention something that I want to talk about a little bit more. You said that you were angry at yourself in a sense, that you let your body down. Is that a way that common cancer patients feel? Because I felt, even just being a doctor, listening and talking to cancer patients, that often what they say are things like "How did this happen to me?" You know, it's almost like they're putting blame. If they believe in God or they're putting their blame away from themselves, but you kind of internalized that a little bit. Is that common?
DR. BILL: Yes, I think so. I did and hat lead to terrible depression. You know, we do as much as we can to stay healthy and there's always more to do, of course, and I felt like I had...It's difficult to articulate, but I felt like, you know, my body is sort of like a temple and that I just did not worship. I just did not take care of it and there's an analogous part to this and that was after my surgery, I felt damaged. What I find is people internalize their diagnoses in various ways. Mine was, as I said, to feel guilty about it, but most people, especially those who lose a body part or an organ, they feel as though they're damaged goods and they go to somebody...
DR. MIKE: This is interesting, though, because you just taught me something as a physician. You know, I don't practice anymore, I'm a teacher now. I'm very blessed to be doing shows like this and talking to people like you, Bill, but I, obviously, I have friends, family members. Cancer continues to increase in certain populations. I mean, I'm still doing it, right? I think what's interesting about this from that very sterile, analytical, medical doctor position, I would almost want to deal with someone's physical pain from the cancer rather than emotional, for everything you said so far has been very emotionally based. You haven't said anything about the physical part of it. I mean, do doctors need to focus more on the emotional pain? I mean, obviously, the physical pain has to be dealt with, but I don't think we're addressing this enough with people.
DR. BILL: I think it's a really good point. I've identified four stages of cancer with the 120 people. There is of course, the terrible diagnosis. Then there is the agony; need of treatment and that is very painful. Doctors, I think, do a great job of helping people through that, but then when treatment's over, that's what one of the survivors in the book, Kim Lin, describes as the silent stage. In other words, after that diagnosis and after the treatment, it's a very busy time of life. There are treatment appointments, doctor appointments. People call up to find out how you are and then, all of a sudden, when treatments over, there's a total silence. It's anomic silence and the survivors are left with the feeling of "What's next?" The point that you made about the physical pain? Physical pain is temporary and when it's over, it's over; or, once it's on a low-level it can be, but the emotional pain is more lasting and there are more people surviving and many people have to figure out what to do and how to move forward.
DR. MIKE: Well, you're right, people are surviving cancer at a higher rate, which is awesome. We're getting people past that initial treatment, that post-treatment phase and you mentioned there's this silence. Do you think, based on your research and talking to these cancer survivors that if we did a better job of helping people through the emotional pain post-treatment that we could actually impact outcome better?
DR. BILL: I don't know.
DR: MIKE: I'll tell you what, Bill. Do this, hold that thought and we'll come back to that question and then we'll get more into the 120 cancer survivors.
This is Healthy Talk on Radio M.D.
I'm Dr. Mike. Stay Well. - Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Mike Smith, MD
Additional Info
- Segment Number 1
- Audio File healthy_talk/1520ht2a.mp3
- Featured Speaker Michael Smith, MD
- Organization Life Extension
- Guest Website Healthy Talk MD
-
Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Healthy Talk | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Michael Smith, MD
Living longer and staying healthier. It's Healthy Talk with Dr. Michael Smith, M.D. Here's your host, Dr. Mike.
DR. MIKE: So, I want to discuss a potential cure for celiac disease. Some of you may find it kind of disgusting and it is a little bit, but it seems to work. So, I'm going to have to explain what it is. It's a treatment using the parasitic hookworm. Yes, a parasite, a worm may be the potential cure for celiac disease. Now it's important, let me make the distinction right now, I'm not talking about gluten sensitivities. I'm talking about the true autoimmune condition that affects over, oh, maybe about 2% of the world's population--definitely over 1%. This is where if you have celiac disease, your body produces antibodies that create quite a robust overstimulated immune response to gluten.
This causes a lot of damage and inflammation to the gut lining. Celiac disease has been associated with type II diabetes and multiple sclerosis. As a matter of fact, in 2013, the journal Nutrients wrote a great article on the potential link to colon cancer with celiac disease. So, that's what I'm talking about here. Really, the only therapy here, the only treatment for celiac, is to avoid gluten completely. I think most of you know that it is almost impossible to do that nowadays. I mean, gluten is in everything.
That's why it is important, if you have celiac disease, to eat fresh food. You have to know what you're cooking with. It's hard to even go out. You know, you really have to trust the restaurant. If they say, "This is gluten free," you really have to trust them. So really, the only way to treat celiac disease right now is to avoid gluten, which is tough and getting tougher. So, I want to share with you this report.
Now, if you want to read the full report , my friend, Maylin Paez, from Life Extension wrote about this. You can go check this out at blog.lifeexension.com. She pulled this from an Australian research center. They published the results in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, a great peer-reviewed journal.
They looked at 12...Now, okay it's a small amount, right? It's hypothesis generating. We're not going to draw any definite conclusions. That's why I called it a potential cure. Scientists from Australia recruited 12 people with celiac disease and gave each individual 20 hookworm larvae to ingest. I know this is making some of you squeamish. So, 20 hookworm larvae over a period of 22 weeks. Varied amounts of gluten were given to participants and this is an interesting set up. They did a really good job of exposing the subjects to gluten at different doses over an extended period of time.
So-- and this is important--they used different sources for gluten. So that's also important. So, this is a small, but well-designed study. For 12 weeks, after ingesting the hookworms, some of them were given 10 to 50 mg of gluten for 12 weeks and then they switched over to 25 mg a day, plus one gram twice weekly for 12 weeks and then they went to three grams a day using different types of pasta for two weeks. So, they did a really good job of varying up the dose of gluten and the source of gluten. Blood and tissue samples were taken to examine their response to therapy.
Now, of the 12 only eight completed the trial. So, again, we don't have any conclusive evidence here. It's what we call a pilot study. So, only eight actually completed the trial. Tests measuring gluten toxicity showed improvement overall. The participants reacted well to gluten and the hookworm therapy. By the end of the trial participants were able to eat the equivalent of a bowl of spaghetti symptom-free. Now, you have to understand, for somebody with celiac disease, the thought of eating a bowl of spaghetti makes them want to fall over and faint. There's just no way.
So, the fact that after this study, after being given the hookworms, they were given a bowl of spaghetti, or the equivalent of the amount of gluten in a bowl of spaghetti, without any symptoms. That's major. That's a major accomplishment. They go on to say here, samples of intestinal tissue-- because that's important, too. In celiac disease, there's a definite change in the mucosal lining of the gut. So, you want to see if there's any improvement in some of those classic celiac changes in the gut. Samples of intestinal tissues showed beneficial changes. T cells, immune cells, changed from pro-inflammatory to anti-inflammatory. That's awesome!
They also started noticing a decrease overall in what is called denuding of the gut lining, meaning the gut lining started to kind of fill itself in in areas where there were problems. Larger trials definitely are needed to confirm the benefits of hookworm therapy. What do you think? Hookworms? How is this working? What do you think the mechanism of action is? That was the first thing. I thought, "What's going on here?" No one knows what's going on here, but here's the thought: In countries that are developing, or even just underdeveloped countries, especially in the tropics, parasitic infections with worms are not that uncommon, in particular with hookworms. They come from water, often fecal/oral routes. You drink some contaminated water, you wash your dishes with contaminated water. It's quite common.
And I don't have percentages, but I remember learning about these different parasites in medical school and hookworm is just incredibly common and most people just have a few larvae. They don't grow too much. They don't divide too much or they don't make too many hookworms, if you will, and there are a lot of people who have hookworm infections or parasitic infections and they don't even really know it and they can have it most of their lives.
The theory is this: the hookworm itself -- and we already know this because you can show this in petri dishes -- the hookworms produce proteins that breakdown inflammatory proteins in the gut. We already use that in the industry. We use enzymes. It's called enzymatic therapy, where I can give enzymes to customers, Life Extension members, and these enzymes will breakdown pro-inflammatory proteins in the blood and it will reduce chronic inflammation. So, we already know that. We already have this idea of enzymatic therapy to break down inflammatory proteins, and hookworms produce natural proteins that do that.
So, the thought is, in these countries where hookworm infections are ubiquitous, there's a certain amount of protection against high inflammation in the gut. There's a suppression of the immune system in the gut and you don't see things like celiac disease, even in the events where gluten ingestion is increasing. It's unfortunate that these diets that we follow, the Standard American Diet, (SAD) is making its way throughout the world. McDonald's, fast food joints, are popping up everywhere even in underdeveloped countries. So, these countries, where the traditional diet had probably very little gluten, it is increasing and you're still not seeing sensitivity to celiac disease like you see in the United States.
What's happened in Western countries and developed countries is, we've eradicated these parasitic infections, which sounds great. It is good overall, but we have no natural anti-inflammatories from these hookworms, in this instance, to protect us from this over response in gluten. So, we see higher instances of celiac disease. At least that's the theory.
So, the hookworm is, in a sense, an inflammatory and immunosuppressive for the gut lining and it protects against things like celiac disease. Very interesting. More research is needed. We'll have to follow this one. This is Healthy Talk on Radio M.D. I'm Dr. Mike. Stay well. - Waiver Received No
Additional Info
- Segment Number 4
- Audio File train_your_body/1520tb2d.mp3
- Featured Speaker Jordan D. Metzl, MD
- Organization ACSM
-
Guest Bio
Jordan D. Metzl, MD, (www.DrJordanMetzl.com) is a sports medicine physician at Hospital for Special Surgery, America’s premier orthopedic hospital located in New York City. Regularly voted among New York’s top sports medicine doctors by New York Magazine, Dr. Metzl takes care of athletic patients of all ages and lectures and teaches extensively both nationally and internationally.
With a practice of more than 20,000 patients, Dr. Metzl is widely known for his passion for sports medicine and fitness. His focus is to safely return athletes to the playing field of their choice and to keep them there. In addition to his busy medical practices in New York City and Old Greenwich, Connecticut, Dr. Metzl is the author of the bestselling titles The Exercise Cure (Rodale 2014) and The Athlete's Book of Home Remedies (Rodale 2013) and has also authored three other books, including The Young Athlete (Little Brown). Dr. Metzl is also the medical columnist for Triathlete Magazine. His upcoming book entitled Run Your Best Life is expected in 2015 (Rodale).
His research interests include the treatment and prevention of running related injury, the effectiveness of preventive wellness programs, and the prevention of youth sport injury.
Dr. Metzl appears regularly on media programs including the Today Show, on radio including National Public Radio (NPR) and in print media including the New York Times, discussing the issues of fitness and health. In addition to his busy medical practice and academic interests, he practices what he preaches.
Dr. Metzl created the Ironstrength Workout, a functional fitness program for improved performance and injury prevention that he teaches in fitness venues throughout the country. The workout is featured on www.RunnersWorld.com where it has been performed by more than nine million athletes around the world.
A former collegiate soccer player, 31-time marathon runner and 12-time Ironman finisher, he lives, works, and works out in New York City. -
Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Train Your Body | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Melanie Cole, MS
Guest: Jordan D. Metzl, MD
Your trainer Melanie Cole is here to motivate and help you perform. It’s time now for Train Your Body.
MELANIE: So what are shin splints? And what are muscle cramps? You get them, you start to run, maybe you’re out walking, maybe you’re doing a lunge, maybe you’re just bending over to pick up your kid, or sleeping at night, and all of a sudden this thing grabs your leg behind your leg, you know, or in your foot, what is that? And if you’re out exercising what can you even do about it? My guest is Dr. Jordan Metzl. He is a nationally recognized sports medicine physician, and best-selling author of Running Strong.
Welcome to the show Dr. Metzl.
So tell us first, what is a cramp? What is it?
DR. METZL: So, you know, running and cramps and cramps from sports are a very common thing that we see in the office. As an athlete myself, I want to make sure that I hopefully don’t get too many cramps when they come on they are really horrid. Nothing worse than in the middle of an iron man or a marathon and you get a hamstring or a quad cramp and you’re just like “Aw, man. I put in all this training. This sucks.” So, why do they happen? Muscle cramp just means the muscle is kind of going into spasm. They tend to happen for a couple of reasons. The number one reason is that the muscle is not strong or flexible enough. So, there is kind of a mechanical cramp, which tends to be related to just not being strong or flexible enough. That’s probably about 20% of cramps are related to that. So, you just put too much loading force on the muscle, and in quite English terms, the muscle gets pissed off. It starts to cramp up and get very sore and goes into spasm and it doesn’t like it. You know. The other group which is much more common are nutritional cramps. So, those fall in the category of things like dehydration. If you get severely dehydrated your muscle tends to go into a cramp and a spasmodic type pattern. Electrolyte imbalance. Things like sodium, potassium, magnesium. Those deficiencies, particularly after doing a lot of sweating. You can lose a lot of electrolytes. Those can cause muscular cramping as well, so if you’re somebody that is in a hot, humid environment, you want to make sure you’re pre-hydrating and definitely pre-electrolyte loading and replacing those electrolytes as you go so you don’t end up down the road with all kinds of problems. So, muscle cramping is a common thing I see and it is also a common thing I try and give people guidance on how to prevent because, generally speaking, if you’re smart about it, not always, but certainly much of the time, you can avoid these.
MELANIE: Now are those kinds of cramps that are exercise related or, you know, nutritionally related to muscle imbalance, whatever, you know, are the reasons, are those different than those ones that wake you up screaming in the night? That your hamstring or your foot juts out in a direction, you hop around for a while, and then the next day that muscle is actually sore.
DR. METZL: Yea that’s a different type of drill. So, that’s a different thing. These tend to be exertional related cramps that I’m talking about versus just some of the night time cramping which maybe sometimes related to dehydration or something, but, generally speaking, those are sometime positional at night and some people just get those.
MELANIE: So, you don’t have any remedies for those middle of the night things?
DR. METZL: I’m sorry, if I did I would be the first person that would buy it. I, thankfully, you know, it’s not something I get a lot of, but I’d say stretch out before bed and don’t move.
MELANIE: And what about, you mentioned electrolytes and sodium potassium, you know, so is eating a banana, half a banana, is that going to help you? Is that enough potassium? Or, do you like energy drinks? Or, you know, like a Gatorade electrolyte replacement drink?
DR. METZL: I got to say, my patients, and I have people that do all kinds of different things. I’ve had the best success with some of the new high sodium sports drinks. So, like endurance formula Gatorade has been very, very helpful. And then I have a whole other crowd. The patients that seem to get this the worst are my iron man people, like me, who are doing stuff in hot, humid environments and my tennis players who are playing, particularly down in the southeast, where they get a lot of heat and humidity down there and they lose a ton of electrolytes. Those tennis folks swear by dill pickle juice. I’m not kidding.
MELANIE: I’ve heard that before.
DR. METZL: They love it. They go crazy for dill pickle juice, and they really believe in it. I mean it really. It’s a great. It’s brine salt. It’s readily available in terms of the absorption capacity is very quick. They love it. So, that works for them but for everybody else I think some of the salt containing, high salt sport drinks probably are the best.
MELANIE: Now, what is a shin splint? You know we’ve talked on the show with so many experts about various muscle conditions and things, but shin splints, in particular, seem to be a common one and a bit of a confusing one because there is like, it feels like there is no muscle there, it’s like it’s just a bone. But we know that there is muscle. What is a shin splint?
DR. METZL: So, basically, shin splint means an irritated, or, as I say in my videos on Runners World, pissed off my shin. I’ve irritated my shin. And there are kind of two main, broad categories of shin splint. The less common is what we call muscular shin pain, and the person with muscular shin pain is the following person: “Hi I’m Melanie and I’m a runner and I run. After about 15 or 20 minutes the outside or the back of my leg starts to get really tight and my leg is killing me and the more I step the tighter it gets and I feel like something is squeezing inside my leg.” Now, that’s sometimes called a shin splint. It’s in a broad category of shin splint with running, but that’s what we call muscular shin pain. And what you’re describing is something called exertional compartment syndrome meaning that the muscle is expanding and there is not enough room for it to expand and it gets squeezed by the wrapping called the fascia and it becomes really tight and we do things to help that. We shorten peoples’ running stride. Then, if that doesn’t work, we do a diagnostic test called Compartment Syndrome Test, and then if that shows an elevated pressure, sometimes these people need surgery to fix that. Now, the much more common shin pain are the people who run and they start running and running and running and they get pain either in the front or the back inside part of their bone, particularly their tibia bone. And that is called Tibial Stress Syndrome, most commonly, Posterior Tibial Stress Syndrome on the inside part of the leg. And when people get that problem, it’s most often related to a combination of their foot mechanics and their stride length. So, the things I really educate my patients on are: number one, I use oftentimes a corrective type orthotic. The kind I like are the types that you just get in the mail for forty bucks. You heat them up in the oven and then step in them and they mold to your feet. Those have been very…
MELANIE: Yeah. I like those too.
DR. METZL: They’re great, and then in terms of stride length I have them shorten up that stride. I have them use the shorter stride. Try and get to a cadence 175/180 and try and match that cadence to see what that feels like and that should help as well.
MELANIE: Well and I want to point out that he mentions running because he is like, you know, iron man runner but walkers get shin splints, too, and it’s easy to get these things. It’s the same issues. You get them in aerobics class or you get them in yoga, you get them in… and it doesn’t even matter. But walking, also. So, you mentioned orthotics and shoes, base, stride length, gait. All of its involved. Are there certain stretches or things because sometimes taking your toe, tucking it under across the leg. It’s a very hard area to stretch.
DR. METZL: Yes. So, here’s the story on this. I’m a big fan, in all my books, I have whole illustrated workout on how to use your foam roller. I think getting on that sucker makes a huge difference and I think that’s the best way. It’s very difficult to stretch that. I have a lot information on using a foam roller and how to do that.
MELANIE: So, using a foam roller would be the best way to learn to stretch that area because it is, as you say, a difficult area…
DR. METZL: Impossible.
MELANIE: It certainly is. In the last minute, the best advice on those little nagging things, shin splints, cramps, things that come up when we run or walk, because some of us are walkers, Dr. Metzl. We are not all Iron Men, but I’m a long distance walker. I’ll walk forty miles. You know, I just can’t seem to run but we will talk about that on another show. Best advice.
DR. METZL: For what? For people who do that?
MELANIE: On all of this shin splints, cramps, any of it.
DR. METZL: Yes. So, my best advice is, number one: if pain changes your mechanic of movement, get it checked out meaning if shin pain is changing the way you walk or run, if knee pain is changing the walk or run, get it checked out. I see so many injuries in my office that are getting worse by people changing their mechanical movement patterns because of pain. So, that’s number one. And number two is, figure out why the pain is happening. We can do so much. I want to educate what runner and walkers around the world on how they can take care of their bodies and prevent problems from happening. With a little bit of education you can make a huge difference and be your own best advocate in this space.
MELANIE: Wow, he is ending this just like he is a complete pro, which he is. The book: Dr. Jordan Metzl’s Running Strong. You can get it on Amazon. You’re listening to RadioMD.
This is Melanie Cole.
Stay well. - Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Melanie Cole, MS
Additional Info
- Segment Number 3
- Audio File train_your_body/1520tb2c.mp3
- Featured Speaker Jordan D. Metzl, MD
- Organization ACSM
-
Guest Bio
Jordan D. Metzl, MD, (www.DrJordanMetzl.com) is a sports medicine physician at Hospital for Special Surgery, America’s premier orthopedic hospital located in New York City. Regularly voted among New York’s top sports medicine doctors by New York Magazine, Dr. Metzl takes care of athletic patients of all ages and lectures and teaches extensively both nationally and internationally.
With a practice of more than 20,000 patients, Dr. Metzl is widely known for his passion for sports medicine and fitness. His focus is to safely return athletes to the playing field of their choice and to keep them there. In addition to his busy medical practices in New York City and Old Greenwich, Connecticut, Dr. Metzl is the author of the bestselling titles The Exercise Cure (Rodale 2014) and The Athlete's Book of Home Remedies (Rodale 2013) and has also authored three other books, including The Young Athlete (Little Brown). Dr. Metzl is also the medical columnist for Triathlete Magazine. His upcoming book entitled Run Your Best Life is expected in 2015 (Rodale).
His research interests include the treatment and prevention of running related injury, the effectiveness of preventive wellness programs, and the prevention of youth sport injury.
Dr. Metzl appears regularly on media programs including the Today Show, on radio including National Public Radio (NPR) and in print media including the New York Times, discussing the issues of fitness and health. In addition to his busy medical practice and academic interests, he practices what he preaches.
Dr. Metzl created the Ironstrength Workout, a functional fitness program for improved performance and injury prevention that he teaches in fitness venues throughout the country. The workout is featured on www.RunnersWorld.com where it has been performed by more than nine million athletes around the world.
A former collegiate soccer player, 31-time marathon runner and 12-time Ironman finisher, he lives, works, and works out in New York City. -
Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Train Your Body | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Melanie Cole, MS
Guest: Jordan D. Metzl, MD
Train your body. Here’s Exercise Physiologist Melanie Cole, M.S.
MELANIE: Do you see those people out there running? You think to yourself, “I know I could be one of those. I just really don’t know how to begin. I don’t know if I have the wind for it”. I hear that all the time. “I don’t know if I have really the strength to do it. They seem like they’re so motivated.” Well, we are going to talk about healthy running and the things you need to do if you want to become a runner. My guest is the consummate expert, Dr. Jordan Metzl. He’s a nationally recognized sports medicine physician, bestselling author and fitness instructor, practices at the hospital for special surgery in New York. Welcome to the show Dr. Metzl, so your new book, Running Strong, right? That’s the name?
DR METZL: You bet you, nice to talk to you and, yes, the new book is called Running Strong. I did it with “Runners World” and I kind of think of this as the following things. So, I was thinking about it when I put it together. So, I’ve been practicing sports medicine for 15 years and I’ve been running for, I guess, thirty plus years, and I do believe that the best medicine every day, is to get off your couch every single day and get out of bed and get out there and get going. I want people to go do that and in sports, running certainly is the easiest, literally lowest bar entry. Literally you just got to get a pair of shoes and open your door. So, as a lifelong runner and somebody that has taken care of thousands of runners, how to you get that information and how do you keep people on the road? So, the idea of Running Strong was basically every single thing I know as a runner and every single thing I know as a sports medicine doctor together. This year was my 33rd marathon so just by way of “street cred”…
MELANIE: Oh, that’s just wonderful.
DR METZL: So, I practice what I preach. You know, I don’t want to talk about it, I want to do it!
MELANIE: Yes.
DR METZL: We did a really cool thing actually with the great folks at Runners World, and that was, I have been doing a whole series of videos with them called “Inside the Doctor’s Office” over the last four or five years and literally somebody’s in my office and we tackle every subject matter a runner will deal with, from shin splints to muscle cramps to achy hips, to achy backs, to stride lengths to drinking coffee before you run. Everything. We called that series “Inside the Doctor’s Office”. So, what we did is, in addition to all the information about everything related to running, we did a series of illustrated, feet, ankles, knees, hips, backs and every time you get to a thing like shin splints, you read about it and then you hold your smart phone over the picture of the shin and we’re using this new scanning app called “Blippar” and it basically scans the page and takes you, on your smart phone, to the video I did on that subject. So, it’s literally like a 24/7 video consultation from anywhere around the world, but different than Dr. Google, who is only right about 30% of the time. I know what people are doing because they get all the information, so it’s a pretty cool way, I think, on the health informatics side to be able to give people info but also just for runners I want to keep on the road. So, yes, Running Strong is the title and it’s all about how to keep people healthy.
MELANIE: Wow! What a cool app that is. You just put it right on there and then it has you talking about that specific injury, or that specific limitation, whatever it is. That is absolutely brilliant! So, give us a little summary of your best advice for running strong. What do you tell people about getting out there on the road?
DR METZL: Sure. So, basically, first of all, I want everybody to do it. It’s interesting to think about my typical day in the office. You know, one patient can be a 62-year- old woman who is a new runner who wants to do the “5K” and she’s got a little bit of arthritis in her knees. The next patient could be a 16-year-old, cross-country junior who’s looking to kind of make it to a college runner and then the next person may be like a 40-year-old guy who wants to run a marathon for the very first time. So, each one of those people are runners and they all run and yet they all have very different needs and so I start by talking about the proper running form and some of the basics of preparing your body to run. Then, after going through pretty much the whole body piece, talk about things like improving your physiology, maximizing your strength, maximizing your flexibility on a foam roller, some of the things you think about in terms of mechanics of your own personal run, nutrition, so it’s pretty much a tip to toe thing. I guess the message I want to give everybody, I titled the book, Running Strong and that was no accident. We did it in combination of a new version of my workout called “Iron Strength” which is, I think I’ve talked to you about it before, a full body function training, which is basically kinetic training for runners. So, using body weight, a lot of plyometric-based training to basically build your strength so you put much less loading force on your hips, and your knees and your back. So, what I want people to think about is, “How do I make myself--whether I’m the 61-year-old person with arthritis, the 16-year-old kid who wants to run faster, or the 40-year-old person who wants to run a marathon--how to I make running the healthiest for me?” If you think about those kinds of things, maximizing your form, maximizing your strength, maximizing your physiology, you will make yourself the best version of yourself when it comes to running.
MELANIE: How do you maximize your motivation to get started?
DR METZL: HA! That’s a great question! And, that’s a fair question. A couple things. In my last book, An Exercising Cure, I talked a lot about what we call the exercise wheel. The exercise wheel is a concept that if there’s like a tractor tire lying on the street and you want to take this tire and take it from here to there--you know, down the block or wherever--the biggest amount of energy expenditure is getting that thing up and moving. Once it’s rolling, it’s easier to keep it rolling. So, number one is you’ve just got to get started. You have to force yourself to get started, number one, motivationally. Number two, you just think about it and the last guy on the show which was talking about some of the different apps and you need to kind of think about making a community, whether a virtual community or a real community. In my “Iron Strength” workout community we started in New York about 3 years ago, we have hundreds of people that come out and do the workouts now. They’re all free and it’s all free community-based fitness. It’s awesome and it’s so fun to see what the community looks like when it grows and develops.
MELANIE: And that is really cool. To be a part of something like that helps. I mean, people have learned that even buddy systems help them get going, help them do something. So, that new person, that person that wants to get up off the couch and start running. Right away they start running and the first thing they say is, “I’m not going to be able to do this. I felt my knees after that run” or “I only made it for two blocks and I couldn’t catch my breath”.
DR METZL: Yes.
MELANIE: What do you tell them?
DR METZL: So listen, I tell them that nothing in life is…You know, if it ain’t a little bit of work, it probably is not worth it in the first place but I think some of the coolest advances are with technology and movement together. Knowing how far you’ve gone, what you pace, what your friends are doing, some of the different tracking apps that allow you to setup different virtual communities so you can compare yourself to other people. Those things are all so helpful, I think, in terms of motivating people and keeping them going, getting them metrics on what they’re doing. I just think the whole face of this has changed so much. I love the interface of technology and health and wellness and preventive medicine.
MELANIE: I do, too, and I think it’s a great way for people to figure out what they want to do and get involved in it. Tell people how they can find your book and what you really want them to know about running strong.
DR METZL: Sure. So, you can find Running Strong on Amazon or in any bookstore or Barnes and Noble. The title is Dr. Jordan Metzl’s Running Strong and when you use it, I want you to send me a note. You can send me a note on Twitter. I’m on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook under Dr. Jordan Metzl, let me hear your feedback. Particularly, I’ve had some really neat videos from around the world of people using the scanning app, so it’s nice. Like, I had some guy down in Brazil, he was a big runner in Brazil that watched my shin splint video and sent me a video of him watching the shin splint video. It was pretty cool!
MELANIE: That is cool.
DR METZL: To have people use your information around the world--it’s really cool.
MELANIE: You’ve created a community of your own.
DR METZL: Yeah!
MELANIE: Revolving around people who want to run strong; people that want to get running. So, give us those handles again and where we can find your book.
DR METZL: Sure! So, any of you can get any of this. It’s accessible through my website which is www.drjordanmetzl.com and on there you can order the book. You can order the new Iron Strength DVD. You can access my information and then, if not, Amazon has the book as well.
MELANIE: And the book is called Running Strong. Dr. Jordan Metzl’s Running Strong, the sports doctor’s complete guide to staying healthy and injury free for life, and, you know, that’s it, listeners. That’s what you want to do. You want to find something that you can do and stay injury free and if running is your thing, well then, this would be the definitive encyclopedia for you!
You’re listening to RadioMD. The show is Sports Medicine. Train, motivate and perform with the American College of Sports Medicine. Train your body right here.
This is Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening. If you missed any of our great information, you can listen anytime on demand or on the go at RadioMD.com.
Thanks again! - Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Melanie Cole, MS
Additional Info
- Segment Number 2
- Audio File train_your_body/1520tb2b.mp3
- Featured Speaker John P. Higgins, MD
- Organization ACSM
-
Guest Bio
John P. Higgins MD, MBA (Hons), MPHIL, FACC, FACP, FAHA, FACSM, FASNC, FSGC, is a sports cardiologist for The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center and the Harris Health System. His research interests include the effects of energy beverages on the body, and screening for underlying cardiovascular abnormalities in 12-year-olds (6th graders), and steroid effects on the cardiovascular system.
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Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Train Your Body | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Melanie Cole, MS
Guest: John P. Higgins, MD
Your trainer Melanie Cole is here to motivate and help you perform. It's time now for Train Your Body.
MELANIE: You know, you see people wearing their little Fitbit, and there's all these health apps out there, and you think – Well, when I see them I think either one of two things. That, that person is really healthy, or that person wants that extra help, that extra push. Are those health apps beneficial for the more motivated of those people that you see, those runners out there, those cyclists that are out for a hundred miles?
My guest is Dr. John Higgins, sports cardiologist at UT Health Science Center. So, are health apps beneficial for healthy people too, Dr. Higgins?
DR HIGGINS: Yes, Melanie. I believe in the thing -- I believe it was Peter Druker, the businessman who said, "What gets measured gets improved." I think in the case of health apps, even people that have been healthy for a long time, and are working out on a regular basis, oftentimes, a lot of them don't know exactly how much they are doing, what type of workout, what type of calories they are burning. These can take them even to the next level, Melanie, of health and wellness.
MELANIE: "What gets measured gets improved." That's awesome. What an awesome statement, and it really sums up this whole topic. Really, that's brilliant Dr. Higgins.
DR HIGGINS: Oh, thank you.
MELANIE: So, when we look at those health apps out there, what do you want us to keep track of? Miles? Minutes? Food we eat? Food we stick into our mouths mindlessly? Things we did on the treadmill? Weights? What do you want us to keep track of?
DR HIGGINS: Well, I think you've mentioned it, Melanie, all of the above! In fact, there are set of new apps that are coming out, which are what we would call a comprehensive health and wellness app. That is, they are looking at not only how much activity you're doing during the day, making sure that you're getting the right activity; that you are getting the right amount; and what's coming into your body is the right stuff as well, whether it be the food you are eating, the beverages you are consuming; as well as making sure that you're getting good rest and sleep. This is the -- when we talk about health and wellness, exercise is a very important part, but these other parts cannot be left out of the jigsaw puzzle, Melanie, otherwise you may end up with someone who may be able to run an eight minute mile, but their cholesterol might be 400 and their chronically fatigued, because they are not sleeping properly.
MELANIE: Well, you know, so at the beginning people might be listening to us and saying, "Okay, I am not going to really freaking write everything down or keep track on an app--everything that I'm doing: all my walking, and all my eating, that's for the Type A's." But maybe it's something you do at the beginning if you're really trying to lose weight or you're trying to get in shape, or you're trying to do something fitness-wise. Don't you think at the beginning of any program, at least to get you going, that accountability is what's so important?
DR HIGGINS: You're right, Melanie, and in fact, this is the true power of apps, I think, is that they can give people very good and accurate assessment of what they're doing, feedback, and the person sees the positive results. This motivates them to stick with they're doing, and they want to achieve the next goal. So, maybe they're initial goal was, "Okay, I just want to get into an exercise program" and now they're starting to like it after a couple of months, and now the next goal may be "I want to get back to the weight I was when I was in my 20's or 30's." So, the apps can really help them with this, and they're getting smarter and faster. A lot of the apps now, Melanie, can differentiate between activities. So, they can tell, for example, if you're just walking, if you're jogging, if you're running, if you're cycling. You know, some of them now actually have devices that are waterproof, and they can go underwater and track people who are swimming. Definitely a great power of the apps Melanie is giving someone that fairly instant feedback. The other nice thing that a lot of them do too, Melanie, is they will send a summary, a daily summary and-or weekly summary, and it can be downloaded into your Google Medical app, so you can track very well what you're doing. Finally, Melanie, they will even remind you. Some of the apps will buzz you and give you a message, "Hey! You haven't gotten to your 10,000 steps today," or "Hey! It's been five hours since you were last active, get off your butt".
MELANIE: That's what I need. Now Dr. Higgins, my editors will kill me if I don't ask you to list some of the apps, some of your favorite of these health apps. These "minders". So, give us a list.
DR HIGGINS: Sure.
MELANIE: We only have about four minutes left, three minutes left, so list them off for us, baby!
DR HIGGINS: Okay. So, in terms of the -- someone who is doing cardio or running, there are a couple of great apps: Strava Running and Cycling. That can measure all of your activities, Nike+ Running, Runkeeper, and Runtastic. In terms of just tracking your overall activity, Fitbit is still one of my favorites. It can track lots of different things, from exercise, food intake, weight, sleep, and they’re only about $100 or so for the band, and it works wirelessly with your phone. There are also some great apps for those people that like to be part of a community. So, for example, Melanie, Fitocracy. This is this whole, huge community of literally a million people out there, and they have a little bit of competition between each other. You can also find out what good running tracks are in your neighborhood, or good places to walk, to bicycle. They kind of have little competitions within each other. The weight loss apps: Lose It, MyFitnessPal, Calorie Counter, and Weight Loss Coach. They can give you a lot of helping in terms of understanding the different energy patterns of foods and how to approach your diet. Fooducate is a great app where it will tell you the nutritional value of the food, and they have a scale from A-D. A is the great and D is avoid, and the nice thing about Fooducate is you can scan a barcode of the food when you're out grocery shopping, and it will give you the ranking. Let's say it's a D, Melanie, it's a flunk food. It'll actually suggest foods of the same type of food or categories that are grade A's so you can go and get the right thing.
MELANIE: That's awesome!
DR HIGGINS: Isn't that cool?
MELANIE: Yeah, that is so cool!
DR HIGGINS: Then Sleep Cycle Alarm Clock is a great one for tracking your sleep. Finally a couple of ones that I think are cool for people just starting out, Melanie, with exercise: Couch to 5K is a fun one. This will basically take someone who is a couch potato and it will prepare them within three months to run their first 5K or 3.1 mile. They have these really fun motivating virtual coaches that will actually, depending on what type of personality you have, they've got ones that'll get in your face like someone from New York.
MELANIE: The trainers that'll scream at you versus the trainers that'll just give you that motivational nudge.
DR HIGGINS: Right. So, depending on what you like. Finally, medical apps for people who just want to learn about their condition, WebMD is a fantastic app. It's free. It has lots of information about different conditions, and also gives you some idea about some of the treatments and some of the things to discuss with your doctor. So, I think those are some of my favorites, and there are ones coming out every day, and I think in the future, Melanie, look for the - what I'm going to call - the super app. I mean, we're starting to see them coming out now. That is, an app that will cover all aspects of health and wellness and integrate all of those things to give you an overall picture of where you are and how to be healthier. So, to quote our friend, the late Mr. Spock, so you can "Live long and prosper."
MELANIE: "Live long and prosper." One of my favorite quotes. So, "What can be measured can be improved." Apps that are out there, we're going to list them on our website. Great, great segment.
You're listening to Radio MD. Motivate and perform with the American College of Sports Medicine.
This is Melanie Cole, thanks for listening and, of course, stay well. - Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Melanie Cole, MS
Additional Info
- Segment Number 1
- Audio File train_your_body/1520tb2a.mp3
- Featured Speaker John P. Higgins, MD
- Organization ACSM
-
Guest Bio
John P. Higgins MD, MBA (Hons), MPHIL, FACC, FACP, FAHA, FACSM, FASNC, FSGC, is a sports cardiologist for The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center and the Harris Health System. His research interests include the effects of energy beverages on the body, and screening for underlying cardiovascular abnormalities in 12-year-olds (6th graders), and steroid effects on the cardiovascular system.
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Transcription
RadioMD Presents: Train Your Body | Original Air Date: May 12, 2015
Host: Melanie Cole, MS
Guest: John P. Higgins, MD
Train your body. Here's exercise physiologist Melanie Cole, MS.
MELANIE: People ask me every single day, what type of exercise is best for losing weight? Which is more important, diet or exercise? I get these questions every day and all the time, and, of course, they are going to be answered definitively today by me expert guest Dr. John Higgins. He is a sports cardiologist at the UT Health Science Center in Houston.
Dr. Higgins, welcome to the show.
DR HIGGINS: Hey, Melanie.
MELANIE: So, which is more important in your personal opinion. All the research you've done all these years. Diet or exercise, does one matter more?
DR HIGGINS: Yes, Melanie. The answer is exercise, and the second best is diet, but the penultimate best is a combination of exercise and diet.
MELANIE: Well, absolutely true and I agree with you because when I eat horribly, and sometimes I'll just have a big ol' burger for dinner and just -- you and I know, I love my food. I'm a big foodie, so are you, but if I don't exercise, then that food goes right to my thighs, right to my hips. If I keep my exercise up, I can usually maintain, maybe not necessarily lose if I'm going to eat like crap. So, let's talk about the exercises that you feel will help us the most when we're talking about weight training, aerobics, walking, swimming, running. What do you put in your top thing for losing weight?
DR HIGGINS: Well if I -- starting off Melanie, and this is more of a philosophical thing, but if I've got someone who's just not doing anything, I'll want -- whatever they will do, I'll take that as a first step. So whatever exercise they say they're going to do, I’ll say, "Great, get into it!" Then, after they've been doing -- so some of them might say they like going to the gym and doing some resistance machines or weight machines. Others might say they like doing walking, but after a while, I will have the discussion with them of the facts of exercise, and that is, what exercises do you want to be doing if you want to burn off the most calories. Those exercises are the aerobic exercises. So, just to give your listeners an idea of how many calories per hour we're talking about here, Melanie. Doing something like weight training, you know, going and lifting free weights or machine weights, you're not burning up much calories, unfortunately. You're only burning on average about 200 calories an hour. Also yoga and other stretching exercises, they are great and we do recommend them for people, but if your goal is to lose weight, they don't do a lot either. Yoga will burn about 150-200 calories an hour as well. Once you start getting into the aerobic exercises, like walking for example. Just walking at a relatively slow pace around three to four miles an hour, you're already at 250 calories an hour. If you go to more aerobically challenging exercises like swimming, jogging, or step aerobics, you're talking about 400-500+ calories an hour, and cycling as well. So, if you want to look at the actual numbers, we need to think about those aerobic exercises, and I will give them priority. I'm not saying the other things are not important and, in fact, as part of a comprehensive exercise program for most of my patients. I will have the foundation being the aerobic exercise at least three to five days a week, and then I'll add to that some resistance training, some stretching, some strengthening, and/or yoga as well.
MELANIE: So, let's just quickly start with walking. How fast do you have to walk to burn that many calories? Is a casual stroll enough or does it have to be a pretty brisk walk?
DR HIGGINS: Well, the more brisk you walk, the more calories you'll burn. So for example, Melanie, if you are walking really slowly, for example, you're only covering a couple of miles in an hour, which is a fairly slow walk. You're only going to be burning about 100-150 calories per hour. Whereas, if you are going to be walking at about four miles per hour, and that's about a mile every fifteen minutes, which is not a fast walk, but it's a reasonably brisk walk, but you can still have a nice conversation. You're going to be burning about 250 calories per hour and then if you take it up a notch like those power walkers that you see out there who are walking five, six miles per hour. They are going to be burning closer to 300-350 calories an hour. That's still short of somebody who's jogging or running, which is around about 500 calories an hour, but if people can't do that and they prefer the walking, because they have issues with knees or hips or other things, I am all for the walking.
MELANIE: Do you like something like the elliptical better than if someone were to say to you, "I want to take up running" or "I want to use the elliptical". You know, putting that kind of a piece of equipment up against some of the other just body weight, do-on-your-own kind of things. What do you think of those?
DR HIGGINS: Oh, yeah, the elliptical machine is good. Melanie, that's a good way to burn calories, because you're exercising both your lower and your upper limbs, and the nice thing, is you can do it in air-conditioned comfort or a controlled temperature environment. You're also not getting as much of the pounding. It's more of a smoother motion of the joints, so in particular, patients of mine who have various joint problems like rheumatoid arthritis or osteoarthritis, or patients who are trying to lose weight and they're quite overweight, and they're just not down to a weight where they feel comfortable with the pounding from running, either outside or on a treadmill, I definitely go with the elliptical machines as well as things like the stationary bikes, and also, water aerobics. In fact, water aerobics is a tremendous burn. It burns more than step aerobics. In fact, a well-done water aerobics program will burn up to 800 calories an hour.
MELANIE: Wow, so that's -- and you don't always think of swimming. People don't think of swimming or water aerobics as being that really tough of a workout, but really you just don't feel it as tough, because the impact is so low and because your body is cooling itself externally from that water, so you don't feel that heat value that you get from these other excursuses.
DR HIGGINS: Exactly, Melanie. That's a great thing, I think, about water aerobics. I see, at our gym, more and more people doing that of all ages as well. It initially start as very popular with the elderly folks, because they're not getting the pounding and they have a little bit of the gravity effect, but now all ages are getting into that, and they are even doing things like putting bicycles in the water now at various gyms. They are doing what's called aqua cycling, because that burns more calories than just regular cycling. There's a whole lot of different things. The bottom line is, Melanie, there are so many different things that people can do. I am certain that someone can find something that they like to do, which is going to give them a good calorie burn, and, hopefully, that will help them either maintain their weight -- and to maintain their weight, I would probably tell them that they need to do at least around 150 minutes a week, but if they want to bring it up to the next level and lose weight, they are probably going to have to increase that amount of time closer to four hours a week, rather than two and a half hours. It can be done and the other nice thing is, Melanie, I tell my patients to mix it up and spread it out. You don't have to go and do a whole one-hour or one and a half hours in one session. You can do thirty minutes, maybe in the morning, at lunch time go for a fast walk, and if you've got your Fitbit on, or your device, you can measure all of the steps you're doing, and then in the evening, maybe go for a swim or a stationary cycle. So, you can kind of add it up to achieve your goal.
MELANIE: That's what you need to do is to mix it up, and you heard it here from Dr. John Higgins. If you had to choose exercise or diet, exercise is number one, diet being number two, and the combination being the best of all worlds. Exercise to lose weight is aerobic type exercise. You can do water aerobics, you can walk, you can jump, you can bike, you can cycle, you can elliptical, you can do anything that you want that burns calories. So, as long as you're doing it that's your best bet and your best fight against weight loss.
This is Melanie Cole for Radio MD. Stay Well! - Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Melanie Cole, MS
Additional Info
- Segment Number 5
- Audio File sharecare/1520sc2e.mp3
- Featured Speaker Darria Long Gillespie, MD
- Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Darria Long Gillespie, MD, MBA
Additional Info
- Segment Number 3
- Audio File sharecare/1520sc2c.mp3
- Featured Speaker Amy Kim, MD
- Guest Website Baby Pibu
- Guest Facebook Account https://www.facebook.com/BabyPibu
- Guest Twitter Account @BabyPibuProduct
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Guest Bio
Dr. Amy Kim is a board-certified dermatologist and Mohs surgeon, practicing in Atlanta for the past 10 years. She specializes in skin cancer detection, management and surgery. Dr. Kim received her B.A. degree from Boston University College of Liberal Arts and M.D. degree from Boston University School of Medicine. She underwent her dermatologic training at Emory University Department of Dermatology and her Mohs surgery fellowship training at University of Michigan Department of Dermatology. As a dermatologist-mom of two young children, Dr. Kim developed and launched a baby skin care line, Baby Pibu™, in 2014. This unique skin care line consists of products tailored towards daily skin care as well as common baby skin conditions.
- Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Darria Long Gillespie, MD, MBA
Additional Info
- Segment Number 2
- Audio File sharecare/1520sc2b.mp3
- Featured Speaker Laura Turner Seydel
- Organization Captain Planet Foundation
- Guest Website Laura Turner Seydel
- Guest Facebook Account https://www.facebook.com/LauraTurnerSeydel
- Guest Twitter Account @LauraSeydel
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Guest Bio
Laura Turner Seydel is an international environmental advocate and eco-living expert dedicated to creating a healthy and sustainable future for our children. Laura is chairperson of the Captain Planet Foundation, which funds environmental stewardship projects worldwide. She co-founded Mothers and Others for Clean Air and Chattahoochee Riverkeeper. She serves on the Board for The Turner Foundation, Environmental Working Group, League of Conservation Voters, Defenders of Wildlife, Waterkeeper Alliance, Carter Center Board of Councilors, Rotary Club of Downtown Atlanta and Advisory Board for the Ray C. Anderson Foundation. Laura lives with her husband and her three children in the first LEED certified Gold residence in the southeastern U.S.
- Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Darria Long Gillespie, MD, MBA
Additional Info
- Segment Number 1
- Audio File sharecare/1520sc2a.mp3
- Featured Speaker Darria Long Gillespie, MD
- Length (mins) 10
- Waiver Received No
- Host Darria Long Gillespie, MD, MBA
